Non-Boundary Playoff writeup....Large school classifications.

[Stalker]

Here’s what a Non-Boundary playoff could look like if the largest 3 classifications (Group-I) were merged as mentioned in another post. I took a shot at the selection/seeding process going with a 12 team format with 4 byes. There are 18 6A, 5A, and 4A non-boundary teams of consequence in the state if I got them all. Went with Speed’s thoughts on making it a non-boundary playoff in place of Private or Catholic School Playoffs. This roped in Imhotep.
I’m working on Group 2-Small Schools (3A, 2A, 1A) Non Boundary as well that encompasses 26 teams.

Non Boundary Group I-Large Schools (6A, 5A, 4A)
Selections and Seeds based on year end records and results.

Top 4 bye teams….here is some info and thoughts used to seed the teams.
1 St. Joseph’s Prep 11-3, 6A
Nice run with a young group negotiating an always competitive schedule of Washington Catholic Conference teams beating St. Mary’s Ryken (6-6) and Gonzaga (5-6), plus Middletown-DE (11-1), the PCL (split with LaSalle, beat Woodx2), Garnet Valley (14-1) and Freedom (11-3) before losing to Mt. Lebanon (15-0) 35-17 in the final. The other loss was a competitive one against Milton-Ga (13-2) whose only losses were North Cobb 10-2 and Collins Hill 15-1!
2 LaSalle 9-2, 6A
Gangbusters early despite injuries winning their first six including Harrisburg-Bishop McDevitt (12-2), Malvern (8-2), Imhotep (11-2) and St. Joe’s (11-3) before tailing off to 3-2 with a district semifinal loss to SJP. Loaded with talent and a top team in the state when firing on all cylinders.
3 Imhotep Charter 11-2, 5A
Wins vs Pitt CC (9-3), DeMatha (7-3, WCC) and Cathedral Prep (11-2) before loss in final to Penn Trafford (13-2) 17-14, their second narrow loss of the year, losing earlier to LaSalle 13-8. Big respect for getting after people taking on Pitt CC, DeMatha and LaSalle in non-league opening three games.
4 Bishop McDevitt 12-2, 4A
Season opening 21-0 loss to LaSalle at home prevented higher seed. Underwhelming schedule thereon saw them struggle….with a young team….in the playoffs against Lampeter Strasburg (11-2) 7-0 and Bishop Shanahan (11-4) 28-21 before losing to Aliquippa (13-1) in the final 34-27.

The rest….
5 Pittsburgh CC 9-3, 6A
Defensive will only take you so far as shown in narrow 12-6 loss to Imhotep in opener then getting rocked twice by Mt. Lebanon while blitzing all others by an average score of 49-12.
6 Bishop Shanahan 11-4, 4A
Came on later in the season after losing to the Downingtown schools and Coatesville before a strong finish with impressive wins against Bonner (9-3) 14-7 and Valley View (12-2) 35-25 before losing competitively to McDevitt in semifinal 28-21. Very underrated team by year’s end.
7 Bonner-Prendie 9-3, 4A
Touchdown losses to Neumann Goretti and Bishop Shanahan prevented a 11-0 record against PA teams putting the Friars among the top 4A teams in the state last year. Other loss was to a strong Delaware Military Academy (11-2) team, 42-14, whose only losses were to undefeated Archmere Academy-Claymont (12-0).
8 Cathedral Prep 11-2, 4A
Fielded a big offense beating solid stuff from New York in St. Francis (7-4) 28-20 and Canisius (6-4) 44-38 who throttled McKeesport 35-14 as an eg. But it was a less than special defense by Prep standards allowing 20ppg on average whereas the title teams of 16, 17 and 18 allowed 14, 13 and 16 respectively. Averaging 44ppg, they could have been special with a better D. Lost to city rival McDowell’s (9-3) in a mild upset with other loss to Imhotep 42-7 in quarterfinals.
9 Allentown CC 9-4, 4A
Good stuff out of the wildly balanced EPC-South when on their game with a young team that beat Emmaus (9-4) 21-0 and Parkland (9-3) 14-7 but suffered blowout losses to Easton (6-4) 30-7, Freedom (11-3) 42-7 and Nazareth (7-4) 18-0. Won second consecutive district-11 title beating Pottsville (8-3) 35-21 and previously undefeated Northwestern Lehigh (11-1) 21-14 who had 3 fumbles (lost 2) in a mild upset before losing to Jersey Shore (14-1) 20-7.
10 Archbishop Wood 5-5, 6A
Started off 5-2 with impressive 28-6 win against Neumann Goretti (13-2) before tangling with Malvern Prep (8-2) and St. Johns-DC (11-1, WCC) where they were overwhelmed 21-0 and 38-0. Brutal schedule included a loss to LaSalle and two to St. Joe’s.
11 Archbishop Ryan 6-5, 4A
HUGE upgrade over the previous two years (1-10, 0-5) with competitive losses to Upper Moreland (7-4) 33-29, Neumann (13-2) 14-7, Bonner (9-3) 21-14 and CE (8-3) 20-13. Had a 3-0 lead at Bishop Shanahan in the opener but couldn’t hold off talented Qb Cooper Jordan (94ry-2Tds, 89py-1Td), losing 21-3. You knew you were in a game after playing Ryan last year.
12 Father Judge 7-5, 6A
Started off 6-2 then finished with St. Joe’s, LaSalle and Imhotep losses before beating Lincoln 38-0 in finale. Edged Roman for the 12 slot with a 21-20 win despite RC upsetting LaSalle with more competitive losses. It was a coin flip between these two. (Edited CE out. Is a 2A)

Brackets
5 Pittsburgh CC 9-3, 6A
12 Father Judge 7-5, 6A

8 Cathedral Prep 11-2, 4A
9 Allentown CC 9-4, 4A

6 Bishop Shanahan 11-4, 4A
11 Archbishop Ryan 6-5, 4A

7 Bonner-Prendie 9-3, 4A
10 Archbishop Wood 5-5, 6A

Byes
1 St. Joseph’s Prep 11-3 6A
2 LaSalle 9-2 6A
3 Imhotep 11-2 4A
4 Bishop McDevitt 12-2 4A

 

[SPEED&JUMP DR.]

Stalk-thats a tough bracket-but it can be done. Maybe we should trademark " Non-boundary schools"

 

[Stalker]

Stalk-thats a tough bracket-but it can be done. Maybe we should trademark " Non-boundary schools"

Good idea on the Non-Boundary name SPEED. And I'm all in on getting that trademark! Would be a exciting bracket/playoff as drawn up although I feel it should stay as it is....with reservations.
There must be some way to level the playing field without making Aliquippa, Wood, etc "play up" which only serves to diminish the better teams rather than strengthening the weaker. The bright boys need to flip that.

** Still working on Small School Non-Boundary write up; a brief review of 3A, 2A, 1A teams some guys don't get much info on. Something for the off season.

 

[Hausmann1978]

Honestly most these schools are beatable, have to rebuild, and have down years. A lot of them got bounced from the playoffs by public schools. Ill probably get backlash from the PCL guys but the Philly Catholic league is the problem. I think they need to go back to their own league. Look at prep and wood in football and Imhotep ( I know they are not PCL), Roman, and Neumann in basketball. They really take full advantage of their no boundary advantages. They never have down years or rebuilding years like the other schools on that list. Other then the PCL who's just dominates thier classification in football or basketball?

 

[tulla]

Honestly most these schools are beatable, have to rebuild, and have down years. A lot of them got bounced from the playoffs by public schools. Ill probably get backlash from the PCL guys but the Philly Catholic league is the problem. I think they need to go back to their own league. Look at prep and wood in football and Imhotep ( I know they are not PCL), Roman, and Neumann in basketball. They really take full advantage of their no boundary advantages. They never have down years or rebuilding years like the other schools on that list. Other then the PCL who's just dominates thier classification in football or basketball?

Roxy has made this point many times on here, but I'll repeat it since it's pertinent to your comment that the PCL is the problem: the PCL did not pursue PIAA membership as much as the PIAA pursued the PCL.

I think lots of PCL basketball programs think the old system (more games, season beginning a bit earlier, chance to participate in a very high-profile post-season tournament in MD) was better than the PIAA one. Note that even some of the PCL schools that didn't even make the league playoffs could perhaps have done very well in the PIAA tournament. Lots of factors have gone into making the league--not just one or two or even three of its teams--a basketball showcase unlike any other league in PA.

In football, it's not really the league--LaSalle won all of one state championship in its 2008-2012 run and Wood (whose last state championship was truly freaky) seems very unlikely to dominate in the foreseeable future while PCL teams rarely reach the state semi-finals in smaller-school classifications--but SJP that gets some people's blood boiling. One question to ask for the moment: do people think high school football in PA would have been better off in the last nine years if SJP had not been eligible to play in he PIAA championships.? Would you rather have foregone the SJP-PCC games in 2013 and 2016, the SJP-PR games in 2014 and 2017, and the SJP-ML game in 2021? Were Harrisburg, CD, and CY state-championship caliber teams?

 

[new2pa]

Would you rather have foregone the SJP-PCC games in 2013 and 2016, the SJP-PR games in 2014 and 2017, and the SJP-ML game in 2021?

No!

 

[Hausmann1978]

Roxy has made this point many times on here, but I'll repeat it since it's pertinent to your comment that the PCL is the problem: the PCL did not pursue PIAA membership as much as the PIAA pursued the PCL.

I think lots of PCL basketball programs think the old system (more games, season beginning a bit earlier, chance to participate in a very high-profile post-season tournament in MD) was better than the PIAA one. Note that even some of the PCL schools that didn't even make the league playoffs could perhaps have done very well in the PIAA tournament. Lots of factors have gone into making the league--not just one or two or even three of its teams--a basketball showcase unlike any other league in PA.

In football, it's not really the league--LaSalle won all of one state championship in its 2008-2012 run and Wood (whose last state championship was truly freaky) seems very unlikely to dominate in the foreseeable future while PCL teams rarely reach the state semi-finals in smaller-school classifications--but SJP that gets some people's blood boiling. One question to ask for the moment: do people think high school football in PA would have been better off in the last nine years if SJP had not been eligible to play in he PIAA championships.? Would you rather have foregone the SJP-PCC games in 2013 and 2016, the SJP-PR games in 2014 and 2017, and the SJP-ML game in 2021? Were Harrisburg, CD, and CY state-championship caliber teams?

It's a trade off as far as competition. I know this year it benefited the fans and the piaa in 6a football by seeing sjp and Mt lebo in the finals because you had a great competitive game just like in 2017 but other years like 2018 pine Richland and Harrisburg would of been a great finals and more competitive the sjp and central dauphin. I just feel like teams in the PCL take full advantage of their advantages. They never have down years or have to rebuild. Take Mt lebo for example they won't be what they were next year where st Joe's or Roman (basketball) will never have that problem and will probably win states. No other private schools in the state are putting together these dynasties like the PCL and theres reasons why they are able to. With wood dropping back down to 5A it'll be them and Imhotep competting for titles in both football and basketball. It's just not an even playing field. Nothing against the kids either. They are playing by the rules of the piaa I just think something needs to change.

 

[Concretechuck]

Haus, assuming based on your statement schools out west fit into this same category by your philosophy correct? Erie Cathedral, PCC?

 

[Hausmann1978]

Haus, assuming based on your statement schools out west fit into this same category by your philosophy correct? Erie Cathedral, PCC?

No school out west has done what st Joe's prep, wood, and tep and roman in basketball. Best out west was ecp with 3 in a row. No one in the west has come close to doing what sjp has done by going to 9 out of 10 state championships, wood has what won 5 or 6, and the only years Imhotep hasn't won in basketball was covid years. Ecp wasn't that great in football the last 2 years. Ecp and pcc have down years and rebuilding years unlike the teams out east. The PCL takes nonboundary to a whole nother level. Want to bet me right now the sjp wins 2 more consecutive titles along with Imhotep in basketball?

 

[Stalker]

No school out west has done what st Joe's prep, wood, and tep and roman in basketball. Best out west was ecp with 3 in a row. No one in the west has come close to doing what sjp has done by going to 9 out of 10 state championships, wood has what won 5 or 6, and the only years Imhotep hasn't won in basketball was covid years. Ecp wasn't that great in football the last 2 years. Ecp and pcc have down years and rebuilding years unlike the teams out east. The PCL takes nonboundary to a whole nother level. Want to bet me right now the sjp wins 2 more consecutive titles along with Imhotep in basketball?

I wouldn't be so modest Haus with Erie Prep's close calls and numerous medals. You almost had 4 in a row in 2015 winning silver, followed by gold in 16, 17 and 18 and a silver in 20. Before that it was silver in 1991 and 1999 followed by gold in 2000 in the epic CB West encounters.
You've won so many I may have missed one! That may not duplicate SJP to a T but you've certainly dominated the West and state to a degree.

* The won-loss the last 10 year's is an incredible 123-15 (SJP 109-16), with Mischler going 115-20. YIKES! Those are some great down years!!!!

 

[tulla]

No school out west has done what st Joe's prep, wood, and tep and roman in basketball. Best out west was ecp with 3 in a row. No one in the west has come close to doing what sjp has done by going to 9 out of 10 state championships, wood has what won 5 or 6, and the only years Imhotep hasn't won in basketball was covid years. Ecp wasn't that great in football the last 2 years. Ecp and pcc have down years and rebuilding years unlike the teams out east. The PCL takes nonboundary to a whole nother level. Want to bet me right now the sjp wins 2 more consecutive titles along with Imhotep in basketball?

Small correction: The Prep has been in eight of the last nine state championship games, not nine out of ten. It could also be added that in seven of those nine years--the exceptions being 2018 and 2020--they very nearly lost at least one playoff game en route to the final.

Among the many things that could be said, it's of interest--at least to me--to note that with the nearly endless comments about the coaching situation at P-R, with nearly all the contributors acknowledging the enormous difference coaching makes, no one ever draws attention to SJP's coaches or suggests that a major reason for their success at least could be their coaching. This is not to minimize the advantage of not having geographical boundaries, but other than some comments by a few of the broadcasters of a couple of the state championship games, I've heard or read almost nothing about their coaches. Gil Brooks was a very good coach (whose teams also had lots of kids from Jersey), but in his last six years (2004-2009) the Prep won the league championship only once (2005).

 

[new2pa]

Tulla - 100% agree about the coaching comment wrt SJP.

 

[2020sports]

Tulia and New- also agree, as a PR guy, all respect to their coaching- at the highest levels in FB, great talent and great coaching are usually needed. SJP has both

Funny- I think many average PA HSFB fans think that SJP is almost "different" like they are not even HS kids, not even "high school coaches." I think the title "prep" makes it sound like a post-high school preparatory school, IDK.

Super-humans, i guess