Neumann-Goretti vs West Catholic - Who you got?

Discussion in 'Pennsylvania Football Talk' started by thestacheisback, Sep 25, 2017.

  1. thestacheisback

    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    Premier showdown with the Burrs visiting South Philly to take on the Saints. I haven't seen West yet this year but from a distance they seem to be back to playing winning football down there. NG still trying to hit their stride and may have finally found it after pounding an undefeated Bishop McDevit last week. West had their hands full against Lansdale Catholic but that may have been a case of the "looking aheads" before taking on NG. I expect a tough battle with NG coming up on the winning side. Albie vs Fluck. Who you got?
     
  2. Hsfootball0311

    Hsfootball0311 Active Member
    Silver Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2017
    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    1
    I've seen both teams play, it's gonna be a good game, I think neumann will grind it out, got a feeling this won't be the only meeting this year
     
  3. green_beans

    green_beans Well-Known Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2015
    Messages:
    258
    Likes Received:
    93
    WC had almost 200 yards in penalties against LC which almost cost them the game if not for a pick 6 in the Endzone at the end., because of their size and speed they were able to fend off a smaller team.. the same might cause the trouble vs NG .., NG -13
     
  4. Hsfootball0311

    Hsfootball0311 Active Member
    Silver Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2017
    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    1
    I'm not sure of the amount of yards in penalties for NG, but I do know 3x a td got called back, and they only made up 1 of them on the same drive, at times they are a, not to say undisciplined but maybe to anxious, which could hurt in a game like this
     
  5. Burrs5

    Burrs5 Well-Known Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2016
    Messages:
    282
    Likes Received:
    100
    WC had 17-150 yards for LC. NG 14-132 vs BM. I'm setting the O/U on combined penalties this week at 24.5 :)

    I said after the WC/LC game that some of WC's penalties are obvious and that they do commit penalties, but not sure how the refs can call SIX offensive holds on one team and ZERO on the team who is less athletic and that ran 61 offensive plays. At the HS level you can call holding every 2-3 plays if you want to. Zero chance LC didn't hold once in that game. The judgement calls should never have that big of a discrepancy.

    WC was down a number of defensive starters in that game. The hope is that most of them return this week. We'll see...

    NG had 16 penalties in week one vs Interboro, too.

    Also, any chance BM had in this game went out the window when they failed to secure THREE kickoffs and let two other settle inside their own ten before jumping on them. Can't happen.
     
  6. HSFballFan19

    HSFballFan19 Well-Known Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2017
    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    22
    Burrs, other than penalties, how was the LC WC game so tight? I expected West to dominate the game but it seems LC more than held their own.
     
  7. Burrs5

    Burrs5 Well-Known Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2016
    Messages:
    282
    Likes Received:
    100
    1. LC played well and as it stayed close their confidence went up.
    2. LC's first TD was a bit flukey. They fumbled around midfield. The ball was loose in a mass of bodies, squirted out down field, and right to their best player who calmly picked it up and ran it in.
    3. Special teams hurt WC. Twice they had high snaps to the punter and gave the ball to LC in good position. They scored off one of them. Also, WC mis-hit a kickoff and an LC player in the middle portion of the return, near sidelines, calmly scooped the ball and raced pas the entire kickoff coverage team. He was caught from behind at the 9-yard line. That set up their 4th score. Heady play by that kid. Terrible kick.
    4. Penalties stunted some offensive drives and three defensive offsides put LC in favorable down/distance.
    5. By game's end WC was down four defensive starters. Two didn't play at all and one left very early.

    WC isn't good enough to have so many mistakes and expect to beat teams handily. Also, they aren't deep enough to overcome multiple injuries. When the defensive side of the ball is whole then they have a chance to be pretty good.
     
  8. green_beans

    green_beans Well-Known Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2015
    Messages:
    258
    Likes Received:
    93
    It was a good game.. went down to the wire.. LC has some good athletes.. but poor play calling.. in 2016 they lost to WC in the PCL championship 7-6 (WC made it to the state Q finals that year MRing teams along the way).... in a game the LC should have won..HC can't gt away from calling CYO plays in HS.. We ran into Coach Fluck at a college night that Dec.. was talking to him for a bit (seemed like a good guy)..
     
  9. green_beans

    green_beans Well-Known Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2015
    Messages:
    258
    Likes Received:
    93
    Burrs.. looks like we were writing at the same time... nice write up from the game
     
  10. Burrs5

    Burrs5 Well-Known Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2016
    Messages:
    282
    Likes Received:
    100
    Curious? What part of LC's play-calling didn't you like? Overall, I thought they did a good job. They're limited in what they can do without much of a passing game and dynamic playmakers. They took one shot early and had a nice 44-yard completion down the far sidelines. Later on, they did a nice job on 3rd down sneaking the TE into the end zone for a 13-yard TD. On another drive they hit WC with a nice counter that brought the ball to the one-yard line and set-up another score. On their final drive they had a nice screen and a good run on a delay/draw play. They had to keep it simple and try to milk the clock, to try and keep WC off the field. I thought they executed that rather well. WC's offense was really only stopped by themselves with penalties. They had nearly 500 yards of offense.
     
  11. Run4daylight

    Run4daylight Active Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    4







    I believe NG wins the score depends on what WC shows up....
     
    lilromeo likes this.
  12. Burrs5

    Burrs5 Well-Known Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2016
    Messages:
    282
    Likes Received:
    100
    I think that thought applies to both teams. What NG team shows up, too?

    Maybe they click on all cylinders this weekend, but they're not exactly a well-oiled machine either. This is not a 2012-2016 version of Imhotep. Not even close.
     
    lilromeo likes this.
  13. Run4daylight

    Run4daylight Active Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    4


    Burrs 5 Lets remember NG was idle week 0, NG week 1 was canceled, NG Week 2 They played interboro with several key pieces missing, Week 3 Game canceled took Northeast on short notice, Week 4 Played one good half of football against BM, WC week 5 will they face the Burrs that destroyed egan or burrs that lost to Haverford school and Pottsgrove....
     
  14. Hsfootball0311

    Hsfootball0311 Active Member
    Silver Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2017
    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    1
    Burrs5 when NG played interboro, what team was missing key players?
     
  15. Hsfootball0311

    Hsfootball0311 Active Member
    Silver Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2017
    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    1
    I’m sorry run4daylight
     
  16. Burrs5

    Burrs5 Well-Known Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2016
    Messages:
    282
    Likes Received:
    100

    Who was missing? Why were they missing? My bad you're just a fan of HS football and probably don't know the answer these questions. You told me that you have no connection to this program. Yet, the response above suggests otherwise. Ot, maybe I'm interpreting it incorrectly....

    Northeast played them on short notice, too.

    Pottsgrove is a very good team and will more than likely win D-1 4A and advance to state quarterfinals or semifinals.

    HS is down, but not an awful team. Decent on the lines. And i could easily make excuses to why WC lost that game. Special teams, starting RB getting hurt on 3rd play of game, the other starting back and two others out because of tuition issues, etc, etc.....

    Like I said last week, I have no clue who NG will show up with this week. I don't think they have had the same team for any game. It is what it is.

    Regardless of any of that NG isn't a well-oiled machine. They are top heavy with their talent and make a ton of mistakes. Now, maybe they put it together and maybe they put it together starting this weekend. We will see. That still doesn't change my point that some believe this is Imhotep reincarnated and it's not close to that. Can they be a good football team? Yes.
     
    CYOBALL1 and Aragorn like this.
  17. Burrs5

    Burrs5 Well-Known Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2016
    Messages:
    282
    Likes Received:
    100
    NG. Not sure who, tho. Maybe, runfordaylight can provide a list. Off the top of my head the QB, top 3 RB's, top 3 WRs, and the OL have been there starting with that game.
     
  18. HSFballFan19

    HSFballFan19 Well-Known Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2017
    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    22
    It seems as though NG has had a different roster for every game they played. How could this be? They also submitted a roster ridiculously late. Some of the stuff going on down there is very suspect.
     
  19. Hsfootball0311

    Hsfootball0311 Active Member
    Silver Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2017
    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    1
    Wow , didn’t know this conversation would be this detailed, but I did get to watch west vs Roman, and Neuman vs interboro and vs mcdevitt, and I think NG is the better team, but I definitely don’t think they are some unbeatable team, so I will be sure to attend this game
     
  20. Hsfootball0311

    Hsfootball0311 Active Member
    Silver Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2017
    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    1
    So just read a article on the Northeast vs Neuman game, question is: is Northeast that good? Or is Neuman just that different , where they beat the other 2 teams convincingly, and struggled agains NE, and is west good or just beat bad teams, wish this game was played latter, so I guess the real question is if everything about Neumann’s players is accurate, why only a 8-7 win vs NE, but a 54-25 win against interboro (down 20 something to 6 at one point) but a 42-7 win vs a 4-0 mcdevitt team, what is Neuman really?
     
  21. Burrs5

    Burrs5 Well-Known Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2016
    Messages:
    282
    Likes Received:
    100
    Northeast is a good team. They are good on defense and have athletes. They use a heavy run-oriented offense that can move the chains and shorten the game. With that said, that offense restricts them in tight, competitive games.

    When looking at the SEPA HS football landscape there are something like 130-140 teams in D-1/D-12. I'd say a reasonable ceiling (SE PA rank) for some of the teams mentioned are as follows.

    NG: 12-25
    NE: 18-35
    WC: 18-35

    The guys at McDevitt are doing a good job and they are headed in the right direction but their (4-0) record was a bit misleading. Entering last weekend the records of their opponents was (3-13). interboro was thumped last week by Penn Charter, who is a capable squad, but are usually not a juggernaut by any means.

    One area that I think you can draw a comparison between WC and NG is that from week to week you really don't know what you're going to get. Focused, under control, and playing well and it could be Capital Grille. When they're not those things then you're looking at Burger King. So, even though comparing results at the HS level is fair in most cases. It might not really apply in this situation.
     
    lilromeo likes this.
  22. Hsfootball0311

    Hsfootball0311 Active Member
    Silver Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2017
    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    1
    Thank you burrs5 for making this more clear, what game is the better game to see tonight, me and my son enjoy going to as many different games that we can
     
  23. Burrs5

    Burrs5 Well-Known Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2016
    Messages:
    282
    Likes Received:
    100

    Are you asking what game in the entire area? Or just in the city? Many suburban teams played last night because of the Jewish holiday.

    WC/NG is tomorrow at 6. Tonight, I'd say that NE at Gratz is a good option in the city.
     
  24. Hsfootball0311

    Hsfootball0311 Active Member
    Silver Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2017
    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    1
    City NE Gratz sounds good thanks
     
  25. TDjones22

    TDjones22 Well-Known Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2015
    Messages:
    102
    Likes Received:
    22
    I'm going with WC 28 NG 27, no kicker for NG loses this one.
     
  26. OwlRB09

    OwlRB09 Well-Known Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2010
    Messages:
    258
    Likes Received:
    2
    If you know the history between the two coaches you would not have even posted this statement. You should know better!
     
  27. HSFballFan19

    HSFballFan19 Well-Known Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2017
    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    22
    OwlRB, I know Albie coached under Fluck for several years at West. What are you insinuating from that comment? I'm not sure I understand because I am not very familiar with the history.
     
    CYOBALL1 likes this.
  28. OwlRB09

    OwlRB09 Well-Known Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2010
    Messages:
    258
    Likes Received:
    2
    First and foremost, thanks for even trying to make sense of a team that you may have not observed as much to draw an assessment. NG did not begin the season in a consistent manner. Frankford copped out of playing down the shore. GA ran for the hills based on hearsay. NE is a standup program and will play anyone. I do agree their offense is antiquated but it kills the clock. I think it was a good grind type of game for NG after only having played one game in the fourth week of play.

    I've watch WC play lesser opponents and they are limited on offense. The key to stopping them is stopping #31 and let the QB round in circles in the backfield. He will eventual throw some INTs. They don't have a good passing game. NG is loaded in the backfield. The key for both teams offense will be how well their lines can be effective. NG has more size than WC and I think if they come to excute their blocks, it will be a long night for WC with the options of RBs in Wells, Brown, and Monroe whom either can gash you for big yards. On the flip, NG defense with have to take away WC #31 and force them to pass.

    History proves that an Al Crosby coached team generally destroys Brian Fluck's teams. Former WC teams going head to head again. Should be a good one!

    NG 31, WC 14
     
  29. OwlRB09

    OwlRB09 Well-Known Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2010
    Messages:
    258
    Likes Received:
    2
    Check the history when these two former Burrs go head to head!
     
  30. HSFballFan19

    HSFballFan19 Well-Known Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2017
    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    22
    When have Crosby and Fluck coached against each other? The only games I remember were loaded Tep teams beating inferior WC teams. Tough to say coaching played a major role in those games. Again, these are just the games I can recall.
     
    CYOBALL1 likes this.
  31. OwlRB09

    OwlRB09 Well-Known Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2010
    Messages:
    258
    Likes Received:
    2
    They were teammates at WC. Later, coached together at WC. Fluck never beat Crosby coached team. Not even in arms reach. I think he will have his NG squad ready tonight for old times sake!
     
  32. OwlRB09

    OwlRB09 Well-Known Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2010
    Messages:
    258
    Likes Received:
    2
    Was WC LOADED when Crosby coached there? Can you say State Champions? Since his departure, how's it looking? Crosby can and has coached circles around Fluck!!! Imhotep at the time had a majority young team. Mostly, underclassmen starting. I recall Crosby's first season, his eventual state champ seniors were sophomores. Some weren't even starting but seeing significant time. Talent that is not coached doesn't equate to anything. The man can coach, and is damn good at it. Good seeing him on the sidelines bringing a winning attitude back to NG and another competitive PCL team aside from Prep, Wood, and LaSalle.
     
  33. Run4daylight

    Run4daylight Active Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    4


    I hate the comment about talent, you have to get all of your talent to play together. If you look at Simon Gratz, they have athletes from top to bottem however something is missing....
     
  34. Run4daylight

    Run4daylight Active Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    4
    This board hates Albie Crosby, because he can out coach your favorite coach outside of Infante, He's relateable to the players and he wins... Travel outside of PA, the people in football communities respect Coach Crosby for his contributions on and off the field
     
  35. OwlRB09

    OwlRB09 Well-Known Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2010
    Messages:
    258
    Likes Received:
    2
    Coaching is what they are missing. I think HC Zipay is a great guy and can coach defenses but he doesn't have a delegated coaching staff. Seems like a group of guys that are asked to check on players but not have a stake in the play calling or input. Versus a Imhotep or NG for that matter has assistants how do have input and game time suggestions. Gratz is missing that.
     
  36. fkd25

    fkd25 Well-Known Member
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    Messages:
    595
    Likes Received:
    3
    Guys on this board are funny
     
  37. Burrs5

    Burrs5 Well-Known Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2016
    Messages:
    282
    Likes Received:
    100
    West doesn't use a kicker either. Also, if NG doesn't have a kicker then there is no way for them to get to 27. So, your math doesn't line up there :)
     
  38. Burrs5

    Burrs5 Well-Known Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2016
    Messages:
    282
    Likes Received:
    100
    Relax.....Those Imhotep teams were much more talented than those West teams, especially coming off the year when West was going to close and then got new life. The outcomes of those games were not decided by coaching. Especially, when WC's best player was hijacked away from them that offseason. Arguably, West has never recovered from that possible closing. There teams have not been at the level of the 06-11 run.
     
    roxychknpoxy likes this.
  39. Burrs5

    Burrs5 Well-Known Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2016
    Messages:
    282
    Likes Received:
    100
    Again, if you were coaching those Imhotep teams and I was coaching WC, or vice versa, the one coaching the Imhotep team easily beats the WC team in those two years. It wasn't the coaching. It was the talent/depth level that Imhotep was superior in. Clearly!

    I've seen every NG game this year.

    Frankford drove to Wildwood and then decided to cop out? Doubtful.

    GA ran for the hills on hearsay? NG has 26 transfers of the 46 currently on the roster. It's not hearsay. It's a fact. If anyone wants me to list them with their previous school/schools, then it would take me about 10 minutes. It is what it is, but let's not pretend it doesn't exist.

    NG may absolutely win tomorrow, but WC has not played lesser opponents.

    Pottsgrove/Northeast are comparable. HS and CE are are better than INT and BM. Not sure any of that matters anyway.
     
  40. Burrs5

    Burrs5 Well-Known Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2016
    Messages:
    282
    Likes Received:
    100
    West's prime years were 2006-2011. The school was closing after their state semifinal lost in '11. They ended up staying open. West has been a solid team since then, relatively speaking, but not on par with those past years. I do attribute some of that to Imhotep's emergence. IC gave inner-city kids another prominent program, in a hotbed area for youth football, and that is free to choose from.

    Again, those Imhotep teams were stacked. Just stop it with the youth stuff. Yea, they had a good mix of players from different classes early on but they were CLEARLY superior to WC in those years.
     

Share This Page