Father Judge Football

[Judge27]

FJ football is at a crossroads IMO. We cannot continue gauging a successful season or not by the Ryan result. We have to step up vs the big boys and at least stay competitive unlike tonight's 35-7 drubbing to LaSalle in a heavy steady mist at NEHS. I know FJ had some key injuries up front and their QB and WR/DB were not at 100%. Depth is where a team like FJ falls at the waste side compared to the big boys... i.e. LaSalle, Prep and Wood. LaSalle has had key injuries too but that did not stop them from drubbing both Ryan and Judge in back to back weeks. FJ still has the aforementioned Wood and Prep on the docket. I do like what I'm seeing at Judge this year as far as games being well attended. You see a lot more Judge gear in the neighborhood these days. I think the new President, AD and Admissions Director have breathed new life into the program through youth and innovative marketing techniques. We need a monumental win up Rowland and Solly and not the same ho-hum wins against the Council Rocks, Germantown Academies and Ryan's of the PIAA. Until then FJ will continue to be an afterthought in the PCL.

 

[NC06]

Be great or be different. They will never beat these far superior spread teams running spread. Time to maybe try something out of the box offensively? (wing T, single wing maybe?)

 

[tulla]

Be great or be different. They will never beat these far superior spread teams running spread. Time to maybe try something out of the box offensively? (wing T, single wing maybe?)

So are you suggesting Judge be like Navy and use an offense opposing teams have probably never seen before? To me that would signal that they don't think they can compete any other way. It might also deter some kids, e.g. a kid who wants to play QB and throw the ball more than a few times a game, from even coming.

My main question is whether, given that some kids from the northeast are always going to go to the Prep and LaSalle, both Ryan and Judge can be good teams. For the first decade or so of this century Ryan was very weak and Judge was much stronger. If my memory is right, they played a very good SJP team very tight in 2005 and they came close to winning the league championship in '08, losing a close final to LaSalle. But Ryan's been generally better the last five years or so, and Judge hasn't been close to getting to a final, i.e. they've lost all the semifinals (for which they qualify automatically) by wide margins.

 

[CYOBALL1]

I was at the game last night. The one thing that I noticed is Judge has talent and lacks some depth. That is the same issue that other PCL schools have outside of LaSalle and SJP.
Depth wasn't the issue last night.
The bigger issue is selfishness that is very noticeable. Judge goes down 14(and totally capable of coming back) and key players walk around with their helmets off and seclude themselves from the rest of the team. The scrappy late hits and cheap shots don't help as well.
That type of attitude is infectious.

 

[yesman3]

FJ football is at a crossroads IMO. We cannot continue gauging a successful season or not by the Ryan result. We have to step up vs the big boys and at least stay competitive unlike tonight's 35-7 drubbing to LaSalle in a heavy steady mist at NEHS. I know FJ had some key injuries up front and their QB and WR/DB were not at 100%. Depth is where a team like FJ falls at the waste side compared to the big boys... i.e. LaSalle, Prep and Wood. LaSalle has had key injuries too but that did not stop them from drubbing both Ryan and Judge in back to back weeks. FJ still has the aforementioned Wood and Prep on the docket. I do like what I'm seeing at Judge this year as far as games being well attended. You see a lot more Judge gear in the neighborhood these days. I think the new President, AD and Admissions Director have breathed new life into the program through youth and innovative marketing techniques. We need a monumental win up Rowland and Solly and not the same ho-hum wins against the Council Rocks, Germantown Academies and Ryan's of the PIAA. Until then FJ will continue to be an afterthought in the PCL.

Judge 27,
Having some direct and indirect ties to both Judge and LaSalle I offer the following perspective:

Coach "Bear" Bryant once said: Most teams have the will to win, it's the teams that have a commitment to prepare to win that makes them successful.

Not too long ago when Whitey was roaming the sidelines, Judge was a PCL powerhouse having several league/city championship quality teams during his rein. There was a time during the '90's Ryan had some very strong squads that contended and won PCL honors (if I recall correctly). My sense is if Judge didn't have another Catholic school a stone throw away up Academy Rd. competing for NE male athletes/students, perhaps we're not having this discussion? For one, the landscape is different today, LaSalle/SJP/Wood have become an enticing lure for many of the top NE athletes in recent years. Why??...... this new age of overt and "hidden" recruiting certainly has been a factor, the higher media/social network profile that includes TV/streaming of games is probably attractive to a 15-18 y.o. Academic achievement also can be argued as a recruiting tool to a prospective student/athlete/family. LaSalle and SJP have always and will continue to fully invest themselves in that paramount function and purpose.

With respect to the Bear's comments:
When a school administration has the resources to fully commit to a sport including coaching, players, facilities and Alumni outreach, I believe that is the "commitment to prepare to win" to which the Bear related. That must precede the will, desire and commitment that each player must also bring forth.
SJP has re-established that mantra the day Gabe Infante was hired at 17th & Girard. That total "all-in" concept to football has yielded the desired dividends in the form of PCL/State championships. LaSalle's a different animal, they equally commit and distribute their resources to all athletic teams, it's shows with the number of PCL/city/state championships won through all athletic endeavors participated in. Wood, well I won't regurgitate their recent modus operandi, but their success has also been achieved utilizing a different formula.
The will and desire to start off-season training in serious manner following the X-mass/New Year's break is probably a constant among these teams. Their attention to detail coupled with discipline, toughness, effort and pride is what separates those that achieve more success, IMHO..

 

[Judge27]

FJ has lost some home grown talent from their back yard in recent years. Kids that were stalwarts in organized youth football programs such as Rhawnhurst, Holmesburg and Crispin have chose other options. These were kids that had FJ Red/ Blue running through their veins as their fathers, uncles and brothers matriculated at Rowland and Solly. One kid in particular chose to QB at SCH instead of Judge. This kid's family has had strong ties (father, brother, uncles, cousins) to FJ for years and continues to have ties to this current team. FJ has also been the victim of poaching to Wood and Ryan in particular. Don't get me wrong, these are not problems only isolated to Judge. To Judge's credit, they have had their share of talent and really good players come through their doors but it was never enough in the long run to stay competitive against the big boys. These really good players were usually spent by 4th quarter due to many duties being placed on them... i.e. Offense, Defense and Special Teams. As far as the aforementioned "selfishness" mentioned in a previous post on this thread, I see it too. These "really good" players as previously mentioned usually have no ties to what a team concept is because they've been stars their whole young life and coddled. They constantly crave the spotlight, attention and highlights. When things don't go their way, I've seen the pouting, helmet in hand, head low behavior on the sideline. I notice their parents in the stands too, "Why didn't they throw the ball to him?" "Why didn't they block better for him?" "What's the coach doing?" This is probably a whole different conversation on a separate thread. Anyway congratultions to the Explorers, they were the far better team last night. It doesn't get any easier for the Sades as Wood and Prep are upcoming. The Sades will make the playoffs again by default and be handed a similar result as last night. Good Luck to the PCL!!!!! Here's to a good showing in the PIAA.

 

[00shoe]

Judge 27,
Having some direct and indirect ties to both Judge and LaSalle I offer the following perspective:

Coach "Bear" Bryant once said: Most teams have the will to win, it's the teams that have a commitment to prepare to win that makes them successful.

Not too long ago when Whitey was roaming the sidelines, Judge was a PCL powerhouse having several league/city championship quality teams during his rein. There was a time during the '90's Ryan had some very strong squads that contended and won PCL honors (if I recall correctly). My sense is if Judge didn't have another Catholic school a stone throw away up Academy Rd. competing for NE male athletes/students, perhaps we're not having this discussion? For one, the landscape is different today, LaSalle/SJP/Wood have become an enticing lure for many of the top NE athletes in recent years. Why??...... this new age of overt and "hidden" recruiting certainly has been a factor, the higher media/social network profile that includes TV/streaming of games is probably attractive to a 15-18 y.o. Academic achievement also can be argued as a recruiting tool to a prospective student/athlete/family. LaSalle and SJP have always and will continue to fully invest themselves in that paramount function and purpose.

With respect to the Bear's comments:
When a school administration has the resources to fully commit to a sport including coaching, players, facilities and Alumni outreach, I believe that is the "commitment to prepare to win" to which the Bear related. That must precede the will, desire and commitment that each player must also bring forth.
SJP has re-established that mantra the day Gabe Infante was hired at 17th & Girard. That total "all-in" concept to football has yielded the desired dividends in the form of PCL/State championships. LaSalle's a different animal, they equally commit and distribute their resources to all athletic teams, it's shows with the number of PCL/city/state championships won through all athletic endeavors participated in. Wood, well I won't regurgitate their recent modus operandi, but their success has also been achieved utilizing a different formula.
The will and desire to start off-season training in serious manner following the X-mass/New Year's break is probably a constant among these teams. Their attention to detail coupled with discipline, toughness, effort and pride is what separates those that achieve more success, IMHO..

 

[00shoe]

Interesting to read about a PCL: team follower talking about "hidden recruiting" . When the public school followers come on here and complain everyone jumps on them. You need to understand, it's about resources ($) and people in the blue collar neighborhoods don't have it. When Beca and ACC. recruited in the 90's in the Lehigh Valley the public schools their formed a new league and left them out making road warriors out of them until they stopped. You can't do that because the archdioceses needs schools for the Prep & laSalle to get fat on.
A Bear quote, " You can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit"

 

[tulla]

Interesting to read about a PCL: team follower talking about "hidden recruiting" . When the public school followers come on here and complain everyone jumps on them. You need to understand, it's about resources ($) and people in the blue collar neighborhoods don't have it. When Beca and ACC. recruited in the 90's in the Lehigh Valley the public schools their formed a new league and left them out making road warriors out of them until they stopped. You can't do that because the archdioceses needs schools for the Prep & laSalle to get fat on.
A Bear quote, " You can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit"

The archdiocese would probably prefer to see the PCL schools other than SJP and LaSalle doing well since neither SJP nor LaSalle is an archdiocesan school. It should be noted that the picture is different if you're looking at most other sports, e.g. basketball, baseball, soccer, etc.

The question of resources can be looked at in different ways. In many respects suburban high schools in relatively wealthy districts have far more resources than most PCL schools.

Are you proposing that some entity (the PIAA?) should follow the lead of the Lehigh Valley League and exclude all or some Catholic schools? Do you want them to be given their own classification? The Jersey model (separate public and non-public classifications) seems to have resulted in the non-publics getting most of the attention.

A question (for anyone) about Judge: which way is their enrollment going?

 

[00shoe]

Unlike some Catholics schools public schools are coed with about 19 varsity & JV sport teams. Being a public school no one sport can dominate resources. A private school like colleges can put their resources toward sports that will give them maximum exposure (football). I am not suggesting any changes to the PCL. As i have mentioned many times before they have doomed themselves. Think of it this way. Prep/Lasalle are like the Harlem globetrotters and FJ, Roman, Ryan etc. are that other team they play.

 

[Imarealman]

Amazing how grown men take cheap shots against 16 and 17 year old kids and their parents while hiding behind a code name. You live on here and can't wait to pounce on others out of jealousy,bitterness or maybe your just not happy with your lives. All I have to say is God bless you!

 

[tulla]

Amazing how grown men take cheap shots against 16 and 17 year old kids and their parents while hiding behind a code name. You live on here and can't wait to pounce on others out of jealousy,bitterness or maybe your just not happy with your lives. All I have to say is God bless you!

Welcome to the new world of social media.

I didn't assume the Judge poster was trying to single out a particular player, but even from far away I think I could figure at least one or two of the players he probably had in mind. Maybe I'm wrong, though.

But let's face it: high school players get kinds of attention they never used to get. This very website exists largely because people are willing to pay to get information related to recruiting. We're just a sideshow. Older guys like me look at all the social media stuff focused on the players--and sometimes created by them--and shake our heads. Frankly, I worry that some of the kids are eventually going to get hurt by all the hype, but I don't blame them, at least not much, because it's mainly a world made by their elders. And some of the parents really are terrible--no inhibitions about blasting the coach or a player other than their own son from the stands for all to see and hear. And it's not just football. Where I live there's lots of high-level hockey and hockey parents can leave the football parents in the dust when it comes to obnoxiousness.

And maybe there's a racial element in all this. Earlier today I went to mass. About 80% of the people were White or Asian and about 20% were Black. You'd have to be blind and deaf not to notice that the Black people there were more demonstrative. I don't think that made them better or worse and I wouldn't want to say the difference applied to everyone there, but a difference there was--a difference I've seen all my life or at least ever since I went to Connie Mack Stadium as a young kid to see the Phillies play the Giants where I couldn't help but notice that the older White fans kept talking about Willie Mays as a showboat while the Black fans were not hiding their admiration for #24.

 

[Judge27]

Amazing how grown men take cheap shots against 16 and 17 year old kids and their parents while hiding behind a code name. You live on here and can't wait to pounce on others out of jealousy,bitterness or maybe your just not happy with your lives. All I have to say is God bless you!

 

[Judge27]

Nothing could be further from the truth... Cheap shots? What were you reading? I stand by everything I have posted. Nothing was fabricated or exaggerated. I am not criticizing anyone but merely just making the point how FJ has difficulties keeping some of the home grown talent in their backyard. If a particular student athlete chooses to go elsewhere, it just further exemplifies my original point that FJ Football is at a crossroads.

Also, Tulla, I respect most of your opinions on this site but where was race mentioned even once or even suggested? I don't see it. Thanks all for the spirited discussion.

 

[NC06]

Some talent gets away. Highly unlikely that talent closes the gap between prep/la salle and judge in my opinion. And sure they'd lose some potential qbs there is always pros and cons but a triple option style offense is unique and tough to prepare for in three/four days. It's tough to get an administration and team to buy in to that but if they owned it and took pride they could thrive. even an I formation and playing smash mouth may make them more competitive...

 

[6daystosaturday]

They dynamic of the PCL has changed so dramatically that quite frankly it is not different than the suburban one continental (that meaning it is North Penns every year not even a contest, 1 year of Pennridge withstanding) If Prep doesn't win then Lasalle will. It always sounds really good in august, good matchups, good games, maybe this is the year. And it is not going to happen. Lasalle is average this year, Judge is far better than they played saturday, but the result remains. As long as parents feel that if they don't get their way they can transfer, the dynamic is going to stay the same. It kills me. I do want to say that I only wish the best for Rob King and his family. One only needs to look at history to know that that kid probably had every non-pub program in SE Pa giving him an open door to transfer, and he stayed and has fought the good fight every single game. I look forward to watching him in Temple Cherry and White, because only good things should happen for that kid.

 

[CYOBALL1]

They dynamic of the PCL has changed so dramatically that quite frankly it is not different than the suburban one continental (that meaning it is North Penns every year not even a contest, 1 year of Pennridge withstanding) If Prep doesn't win then Lasalle will. It always sounds really good in august, good matchups, good games, maybe this is the year. And it is not going to happen. Lasalle is average this year, Judge is far better than they played saturday, but the result remains. As long as parents feel that if they don't get their way they can transfer, the dynamic is going to stay the same. It kills me. I do want to say that I only wish the best for Rob King and his family. One only needs to look at history to know that that kid probably had every non-pub program in SE Pa giving him an open door to transfer, and he stayed and has fought the good fight every single game. I look forward to watching him in Temple Cherry and White, because only good things should happen for that kid.

He seems like a great kid! Best of luck at Temple!

 

[tulla]

Nothing could be further from the truth... Cheap shots? What were you reading? I stand by everything I have posted. Nothing was fabricated or exaggerated. I am not criticizing anyone but merely just making the point how FJ has difficulties keeping some of the home grown talent in their backyard. If a particular student athlete chooses to go elsewhere, it just further exemplifies my original point that FJ Football is at a crossroads.

Also, Tulla, I respect most of your opinions on this site but where was race mentioned even once or even suggested? I don't see it. Thanks all for the spirited discussion.

You're right. Race wasn't mentioned or suggested. What I was trying--probably unsuccessfully--to get at was a phenomenon I've observed at some games where older and overwhelmingly white fans / alumni (I'm one) and groups of black fans (mostly associated, it seems, with one player) sit and act apart. I noticed it first when Desmon Peoples was at the Prep for a year. And I can see and hear a difference in how people talk about all the attention the "commitment announcements" (e.g. for Swift and Webb) get.

In any case, I should not have added the bit about race to my post. But I do think all focus on recruiting (by colleges and also by high schools) (which disproportionately affects Black kids--just look at any video of the Rivals camps) has an effect on attitudes and behavior.