Does anyone have a figure of the amount of people in attendance in this past year state title games and how that compares to the “peak” years?
Attendance of state championship games
- Thread starter northalleghenytiger
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i imagine it's much less than it used to be
the private schools typically don't bring in a lot of fans, it's really bad in basketball
the private schools typically don't bring in a lot of fans, it's really bad in basketball
I know Penn trafford and Mt lebanon had great community support from the stands. I guess it makes sense that their are less from private schools because there is not really a ‘community’ behind them
There is a different kind of community at different schools. Typically urban schools, public or private, don't have as many fans who travel to games. There are many reasons.
SJP and LaSallle have drawn fairly large crowds the last couple of years and there were a fair number of SJP supporters last year at the stated quarterfinal and semifinal games.
In North Carolina they hold the state football championships in three places
1. UNC Chapel Hill
2. NC State
3. Wake Forest
They used to include Duke but no longer do. What we have talked about here is expanding our classifications from 1-4A to 1-6 A like PA. Then the state might employ smaller colleges for smaller classifications. I can see for the smaller classifications using Guilford college , Elon or even NC A&T. I would love to see PA do this , Use college fields for class 1A/2A use Shippensburg
3A/4A Use Bucknell University 5/6A use Penn State. This may actually help with attendance issues
1. UNC Chapel Hill
2. NC State
3. Wake Forest
They used to include Duke but no longer do. What we have talked about here is expanding our classifications from 1-4A to 1-6 A like PA. Then the state might employ smaller colleges for smaller classifications. I can see for the smaller classifications using Guilford college , Elon or even NC A&T. I would love to see PA do this , Use college fields for class 1A/2A use Shippensburg
3A/4A Use Bucknell University 5/6A use Penn State. This may actually help with attendance issues
sammy- that sounds cool, but Pa is going BACKWARDS- we used to have state final games at Hershey- though not perfect, but now its at a HS.
This topic was covered on another thread, maybe this past spring. But, imo, having these games at a HS is a joke, only gonna decrease attendance (maybe stay the same as '21), and make it less of an "event" than Hershey. I think PSU was s possibility, but it seems that might have been too expensive for the state. But, again, imo, if they really wanted to make it work, they could have. Seems like the topic became political.
Again, all due respect to Cumberland who "got the games" a "community" is not gonna be excited to go to a "championship at a HS" 200 miles away. Teams used to "throw out" Hersehy chocolate" if they made it- now, are they gonna maybe throw out Cucumbers? Or, mm, Cumberbunds? uh, no, cummerbunds?
This topic was covered on another thread, maybe this past spring. But, imo, having these games at a HS is a joke, only gonna decrease attendance (maybe stay the same as '21), and make it less of an "event" than Hershey. I think PSU was s possibility, but it seems that might have been too expensive for the state. But, again, imo, if they really wanted to make it work, they could have. Seems like the topic became political.
Again, all due respect to Cumberland who "got the games" a "community" is not gonna be excited to go to a "championship at a HS" 200 miles away. Teams used to "throw out" Hersehy chocolate" if they made it- now, are they gonna maybe throw out Cucumbers? Or, mm, Cumberbunds? uh, no, cummerbunds?
2020 -
Spot on … and Hershey had hotels and atmosphere to welcome fans for the weekend and it was each category 1A - 6A … it is a step back and thought Hershey was neutral and central for logistics … as far as the community effect, I was at a couple championships and the private/parochials had far more fans … football is pa is sadly a dying sport with very little support from administrations or the state
I don't know what private teams you're talking about. The two championship games I watched at Hershey field were very well represented by their fans. Once in a friggin blizzard!!
Total attendance for Hershey: 2021
Breakdown:
2563 for 1A
3174 at 2A
3405 for 3A
4306 for 4A
2679 for 5A
3965 for 6A
surprised 5a was so low, and 4a was so high.
Breakdown:
2563 for 1A
3174 at 2A
3405 for 3A
4306 for 4A
2679 for 5A
3965 for 6A
surprised 5a was so low, and 4a was so high.
One of the biggest crowds I’ve seen in Hershey was for the North Allegheny/Ridley game.
TV has changed that. Attendance has fallen off because of live TV. I see it here in the Lehigh Valley.. Games that used to be packed houses are now so so in attendance.
Although not for the state championship, one of the biggest crowds at Hershey (and most exciting games) had to be this game for the 1994 Eastern final between Berwick and Manheim Central.
Mt. Carmel also pretty much filled one side of Hersheypark stadium during our 4 trips there. I think the 02 game had slightly less but the '99 game vs Tyrone was supposedly a record at the time. Not bad for 2A schools.
I was disappointed that the championships got moved out of Hershey but would be happy just to see my alma mater make it back to the title game. The town population is shrinking drastically and all our games have been on YouTube the past 3-4 years but thankfully we still get a good crowd at home games.
Mt. Carmel also pretty much filled one side of Hersheypark stadium during our 4 trips there. I think the 02 game had slightly less but the '99 game vs Tyrone was supposedly a record at the time. Not bad for 2A schools.
I was disappointed that the championships got moved out of Hershey but would be happy just to see my alma mater make it back to the title game. The town population is shrinking drastically and all our games have been on YouTube the past 3-4 years but thankfully we still get a good crowd at home games.
what year?
Mike White is at the games every year, and he says they don't bring a crowd
the basketball games bring 100 people at most
Can look up more games, but for comparison’s sake, the crowd at the 1999 CB West-Erie Cathedral Prep game was 5,949.
I assume Paul is referring to the two football finals in which LaSalle played (2009 and 2010).
Making the main distinction between public and private really oversimplifies the issue. In PA you have areas where each school district's boundaries conform almost exactly with a particular municipality that, in many cases, is geographically quite distinct from other municipalities/districts. The people within the boundaries have a lot of interaction at local businesses and there is relatively little moving in or out of the district/municipality. There are other districts/municipalities that kind of blend together with others and people from district X are as likely to shop, go the gym, go out for a meal, etc. in district y as they are to do so in their own. In many of them the population within changes more regularly than in the geographically separate ones. Then there is Philly where, especially when it comes to high school, a particular school may have students from many different sections of the city and where families look a whole lot different than they do in Wellsboro. Maybe some of the other urban centers (Pittsburgh, ABE, Scranton, etc.) are similar in at least some ways.
Also, high school sports--public or private--are a bigger part of some areas' local culture than of others. Maybe that has something to do with the kinds of options people have about how they want to spend their time, with how much time it takes to get to a game site, even whether you can park easily. Maybe it's telling that the Philly Inquirer has dropped coverage of HS sports while the Allentown paper has a fair bit of such coverage.
Then there are obvious differences related to income. Chester's basketball team has a good number of fans, but you're never going to see many Chester people in central PA for a state championship game.
I have coached in three state championship games since in my career. Two at Mt Tabor and one at Rolesville. The first one was in 2003 at Wake Forest it had 10,000+ people. The next one was 2007 it also was at Wake Forest and it had 15,000+ people. The last one was at NC State covid year so it had 5,000-6,000 people. That's crazy as PA is considered a football state and does not have the attendance at state title games like they should
But here is a 2A rivalry in the Mtns of NC this is how they do it
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I certainly don't want to get into an argument with Mike White. If it wasn't for him, where would we be??
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ok- interesting stuff! Well, I can't say i "coached" a high School Championship...thx Sammy for the viewpoint... but I have attended 3 in 10 ten years, for Football. First, the difference b/t public and private- no, I did not see a difference, Pr played ECP, and SJP twice, all were pretty even b/t schools. Next- Mike white- yep he is right, they are not really "well attended." As a general rule, "big games" in WPIAL/D7, at nice local stadiums have between 5-10 thousand on a random Friday night- PIAA finals, have between 2 and 4 thousand- I'd say that is a difference.
Here, imo are some important factors:
1) state-wide competition and the effect of "hopping schools and teams"
2) population decline in PA
3) lower overall support of FB by Pa state-wide
4) weather
1- Football in many other parts of the country has "bigger regional" competition than PA. Even starting in youth football- PA does not really have regional competition, most leagues are very local (kids and families only travel a couple miles- at most 30 for weekend games). some of that is the small-towns of PA, some of that i think is from rules, right after 8th grade, that PIAA has rules of not transferring for sports. to me, that kinda leads to less emphasis of being the "best in the state" may become less important than being a "superstar" in your small town. Again, this is a stretch- but in the Pittsburgh area, I'm pretty sure most locals would be be more impressed w a player having been "the best ever from Aliquippa" than having won a "state championship" in football.
2- Maybe in PA's "heyday" in the 70s or 80s, imo, PA was maybe top football 3 in the country- cuz we were the "sum of our parts" meaning a whole bunch of great local teams, churning out lots of kids who went on the play college and pro football. We still have that better than most states, but not nearly as much as like CA, FL, and many other southern states. the biggest difference there, imo, is those states are INCREASING in population and PA, for like 30 years has been DECREASING in population.
3-While Pa has decreased in population, other sports have also increased in the last 30 years, like lacrosse, soccer and hockey, that takes kids away form football- and also many parents view those sports (maybe only partly accurate) as being "much more safe" than football. As a result, football is just not "king" in Pa like it used to be. Again, still better than lots of places in the US, but no longer as "big as it once was."
4- funny, imo- this might be the biggest reason for small crowds!!! Seems obvious- but southern states and CA playing championships in late fall?? Probably beautiful weather!! Most games I have attended in Nov and Dec in my life have been COLD!! And the final game for State final? that's like Dec 6-7!!! COLD!! That likely leads to not many "locals" traveling to Hersehy, other folks closely tied to the teams, like parents, families and friends, or players and coaches.
I can also tell you that the PIAA has not really done anything to make it "bigger or better." We'll see, maybe the "high school championship field" this year will be great, but i doubt it.
They were at Altoona a few years. Terrible... they didn't make a big deal of it. Wherever the PIAA decides to hold them, they should invest in hyping up the games. I fear attendance will keep declining.
Sammy I hope all is well. I agree with your sentiment, but how do you fix the attendance issues? You can’t make them come. Less live streams/TV? I think the advent/ease of use of YouTube has hurt the attendance numbers a good bit. I can jump around to several games on my couch. It’s nice to turn off a blowout and jump over to a more competitive game, etc.
Well not sure , I would look how other states promote games. Look at Ohio, SC, GA ect. Take what they do to get interest
Is this years state championships projecting to be a record low’s attendance wise (besides 2020)? No offense to Cumberland Valley, I’m sure it has a great stadium. But what’s the appeal for neutral parties to attend? For Hershey there’s an amusement park that is cool, and you could say you’ve been to the chocolate capital of the nation.
As Tulla stated,the Philadelphia Inquirer and daily News have stopped following high school sports and therefore most people have no clue whats going on with football in Phila. and of course the rest of pa. It has been a huge negative for those who have interest . Its really too bad for those of us who looked forward to reading about our teams through those outlets.
sadly, the people in power just dont care much about football in PA- i get that it is 2022, and lots of people use "streaming" but in western Pa, im sure there are hundreds of thousands of yinzers that DO NOT STREAM... but- no more TV!! Lots of people will not be able to watch the WPIAL finals- and may not even be able to watch state finals, who knows.
pittsburghsportsnow.com
AND- ha... at the state level- i just googled PIAA football championship- pretty much ZERO info, ZERO hype- for the competition starting in less than 3 weeks!! click on the "championship info" link... it takes you to 2021!!
www.piaa.org
WPIAL Football Title Games Not on Television for 2022
WPIAL football title games are not on television for the 2022 season, marking the first time in over three decade that there is no broadcast. KDKA-TV’s contract with the WPIAL ended last year and the station decided to not renew the contract. They chose to do this because the costs for the...
pittsburghsportsnow.com
AND- ha... at the state level- i just googled PIAA football championship- pretty much ZERO info, ZERO hype- for the competition starting in less than 3 weeks!! click on the "championship info" link... it takes you to 2021!!
Football - PIAA
www.piaa.org
The private schools tailgate at most of their games. You couldn't find a parking spot at Ridley HS because of St Joe fans (no complaints, I think it's great support). When I worked Hershey media and press box, St Joe's fans tailgated every year they made the finals.
i don't know where we would be, he's at the games every year while you are apparently referring to 12+ year old games when the Philly Catholic league was new to the tournament
another problem with attendance is it's largely the same schools in the championship games every year
attendance would go up a lot if a school was making their first appearance overall or first appearance in many years
if you're a St.Joes fan, is it really as exciting now as it was in 2013 when they first played in the game? i think most would say no, so they will be less interested in going to the game
it's not as exciting for people in the community when they are there seemingly every year like Southern Columbia, i don't know how big a crowd they bring but it's probably smaller than what it would be if they went 20 years without playing in the title game
when Reading played in the basketball state title game in 2017 they filled up the Giant Center to full capacity, i don't think there crowd was anywhere near as big when they played in the title game again in 2021
attendance would go up a lot if a school was making their first appearance overall or first appearance in many years
if you're a St.Joes fan, is it really as exciting now as it was in 2013 when they first played in the game? i think most would say no, so they will be less interested in going to the game
it's not as exciting for people in the community when they are there seemingly every year like Southern Columbia, i don't know how big a crowd they bring but it's probably smaller than what it would be if they went 20 years without playing in the title game
when Reading played in the basketball state title game in 2017 they filled up the Giant Center to full capacity, i don't think there crowd was anywhere near as big when they played in the title game again in 2021
Your passive aggressive position camouflaged as a slippery slope is comical. The only data you have is “mike” and one basketball game - lol. Frankly, tigger provided more insight that actually contradicts your position. 2020 is the most accurate when he points out the benefits of technology.
Good Ole Mike!! He's supprosed to be at the game!!! My God, do I get paid to see the game? Would I go if my team was not in it? Of course not!! Use your head for more than a hat rack!!
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passive aggressive? you're another sensitive one aren't you "roxy", imagine if we talked about something that was actually serious LOL
who the hell is "tigger"?
nope not just one game, pretty much every state basketball game the philly catholic and charter schools bring a small crowd
exactly maybe you shouldn't speak on the games when you haven't been there since Obama was starting his first term
You can’t comprehend what I even said - lol and now you use what is referred to as “reflective projection”, meaning you are the one that is quite sensitive. You issue has nothing to do with the topic and it’s quite obvious.
Whoa there little fella. I don't go to games when my team is not there. Make sense?? I am referring to the two games I went to. And during those two games i can assure you Mike was wrong! And he was probably wrong about the games in which St. Joe represented. Ever been to one yourself or are you just going by Mike?
Plus, let's see. I don't know but having them on the weekends deep into the Holiday Season might, just might have something to do with it. But Mike would know about that, wouldn't he. And let's see, the cost might be part of the equation. But it is all on the Private schools as Mike says!
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When a local district 3 team makes the final the Attendance is usually very good as it should be. I watched the tape of Mcdevitt Wood about 7 years ago and the game was well attended by both schools particularly McD.
you're right i can't comprehend why you are so butthurt over my comment about attendance, like how did that strike a nerve with you?
go get laid for once
yeah it makes sense, so who are you to question somebody that goes every year just because you were there once or twice a long time ago?
funny you mention the games being too close to the holidays, Mike has complained about that numerous times especially when they were played a week before Christmas
yeah the private schools often fail to bring much of a crowd, what's your excuse for the basketball attendance? too close to Easter??? on top of that those Philly schools are pretty close to Hershey at least compared to the WPIAL
Since you’re not that bright or insightful, I’ll make it clear now that I’m done playing with you like a rag doll. You’ve taken an attendance issue and manifested it in to an east/west issue, particularly a PCL issue. Again, PCL was begged to join and yes, demographics would dictate a higher probability of success in football and basketball. This has been your position since you’ve showed up on this board. You’re more of a “hang around” personality. Your impulsive reaction to insult speaks to your inability to have an original thought, so get with Mike and find out what to say next. Oh the irony of you calling someone else sensitive - lol.