Wisconsin

[sammyk]

According to the AP. Slowest job growth and fastest decline of the middle class state.

 

[njfan47]

You're like a broken record; you look at headlines and statistics and don't have the mindset to be able to put the big picture in perspective.

First of all, it's the Associated Press. Say no more.

Secondly, over what period of time do these statistics represent? Did you even think that there might be a possibility that the AP took statistics from a certain period of time to fit an agenda? Probably not, if you don't know about the leaning of the AP!

Also, what is the decline based on? How does the AP define "middle class"? Are there other factors that would help to tell a different story. A simple, one-line post about the economy might not tell the whole story!

Finally, you forgot to post that the unemployment rate in Wisconsin is 4.8%. And that Walker reduced the state's debt dramatically, setting the Wisconsin up for a solid future.

I know, I know, Sammy; it doesn't matter and anyone who asks you critical questions is a right-wing nut and you are a schoolteacher and you are all-knowing. Nice job.

 

[sammyk]

Well I did see where Fox News rated Wisconsin best place in the Universe

 

[njfan47]

How about trying to answer some of the questions that I asked? I should have known it wouldn't happen.

My fault. You can't really argue with stupid. Or is it lazy? Or both?

 

[sammyk]

Face it your cut taxes to the bone trickle down economics does not work and calling me stupid wow ok. Giving Businesses millions of dollars in incentives for a few dozen jobs does not work either. Looks like your boy in Wiscy needs to go to school. Jagoff. And if you can not see that then who is stupid

This post was edited on 4/6 10:21 AM by sammyk

 

[njfan47]

Maybe if you could construct a simple sentence, you would be in a position to call someone stupid!

We've already had the trickle-down economic argument and you forfeited. Don't you remember? You failed to answer any of the questions from the example given. You can't go back and bring it up again; it would make you look bad. Oh, you don't care; I forgot.

Scott Walker has done great work in Wisconsin, but it's over your head, and, therefore incomprehensible to you.

But since you make the point, please list the incentives given in Wisconsin and the resultant number of jobs saved/created. Can't wait for your comprehensive list! We know all about your follow-up skills!

 

[sammyk]

Dealing with Fox news republicans such as yourself I find it boring and time wasted. But when you look at Wisconsin and see that the middle class has shrunk over the past couple of years and when Wisconsin has the slowest job creation in the US you deem it agenda based. Oh and the time frame of all of this is under Walkers watch. So all of this and his attack on education and the guy is doing a great job come on out of crazy town bub or stop being an idiot

 

[sammyk]

Oh and Scott Walkers right to work state policies will shrink the middle class even further

 

[njfan47]

We can start the debate as soon as you define "middle class" or if you can provide the definition used by those who published the statistics.

 

[njfan47]

Do you think you can reply today, Sammy, or is more time needed to provide an answer to the middle class question!? Or is this debate also forfeited?

 

[sammyk]

In Wisconsin 25k-100k. Never the less there are fewer middle class in Wiscy

 

[njfan47]

Originally posted by sammyk:
In Wisconsin 25k-100k. Never the less there are fewer middle class in Wiscy

So now that we have established the range (or at least you have; if $25,000 is "middle class" you've got some learning to do!) why are there fewer people in the middle class?

I am not saying that the following is the case in Wisconsin, but did it ever occur to you that leftist politicians could claim to their brilliant voters that the middle class shrunk under a particular administration when the reason that it shrunk was that many people moved from the $80,000-100,000 category to the $100,000+ category? It would be a factually true statement, but it would be misleading.

Or, are you going to tell me that this doesn't happen in our capitalist system?

So, by how much did the middle class shrink in Wisconsin and for the people that moved out of the middle class, what percentage went down in income and what percentage went up? I am betting that you will not be able to answer this question accurately.

 

[sammyk]

No matter how you spin it no Buisness growth and shrinking middle class and now seeing what he is doing to education and the courts system he is destroying that state. Nice try spin doctor.

 

[njfan47]

Originally posted by sammyk:
No matter how you spin it no Buisness growth and shrinking middle class and now seeing what he is doing to education and the courts system he is destroying that state. Nice try spin doctor.

I am beginning to think that you just don't get it! No, actually, I have known it for a while. Why would I argue with Sammy's eight-year-old son, anyway!?

Answer the question on the mechanics of the changing middle class.

 

[sammyk]

Lowest job creation and shrinking middle class worst in the country. No matter how both of them are re defined in Wisconsin there less of both

This post was edited on 4/11 10:20 PM by sammyk

 

[njfan47]

Originally posted by sammyk:
Lowest job creation and shrinking middle class worst in the country. No matter how both of them are re defined in Wisconsin there less of both

This post was edited on 4/11 10:20 PM by sammyk

So, if there are less people in the middle class, that is automatically bad without any other thought being put into the issue?

What if the middle class lost 20 out of 100 people, for sake of an example. Of those 20 people, 15 moved to the so-called upper class and 5 moved to the so-called lower class. And, of the 15 that moved up, they averaged a 15% income increase and of the 5 that moved down, they went from $25,000 (your definition of the lower end of the middle class) to $24,500?

Now, I know that math is probably not your strong suit, but even you could understand that this scenario would be good, right Sammy?

Jeez, I am starting to miss gingy and that comb guy! You make them look like they understood what was going on!

 

[sammyk]

Less jobs less middle class but I do find it funny how when I post uneployment numbers being down or stocks being up you have a million reasons to refute those numbers but say something about a Republican and bad numbers and you skate around it. Vote straight ticket much? Typical old man thinking

This post was edited on 4/12 12:18 PM by sammyk

 

[njfan47]

FWIW Sammy, this 54-year-old just beat a 33-year-old basketball player over here in China today in one of the most fun one-on-one games I have ever had. The guy could dribble better than just about anyone I have ever seen, but I just wore him down inside and from three-point line in a 20-8 final! All in fun, big guy, but the facts are the facts and Walker has done a great job in Wisconsin. What typically happens here is that the liberal media goes through the statistics and finds one statistic that can seem negative, and uses it to influence the public. I guess the tactic does work, if you are any indication.

And all of my examples in this trail were hypothetical only. Most people just fall for the "middle class is shrinking" argument, without asking the critical thinking questions, one of which should be pretty obvious. That's is: Where did these people go in the so-called class system, up or down? You seem to think that whether they go up or down, it still bad!

 

[sammyk]

Well I guess the Jury is still out on Walker but middle class has shrunk nationally just more in Wiscky. So you do not crash the boards?

 

[njfan47]

So is obama responsible for the shrinking middle class? I understand now, Sammy, if the middle class shrinks, it is automatically bad. I do appreciate the lesson that you have taugh to me!

I didn't really have to crash the boards, it's one-on-one, so if he misses, the rebound is usually mine, although he did have some long rebounds that came off to him. I did dunk on him once, though! You know that's a joke, Sammy; 54-year-olds can't dunk!

 

[sammyk]

In Wisconsin the middle class shrinking is a bad thing, there was not a ton of people moving up in class looked like many moved down in class due to the lack of job creation. And I am 45 and can still get rim

 

[njfan47]

Where do you get the data on the % of people moving up and down? I think Sammy is making it up as he goes along.

That's good at 45. How tall are you? I could still dunk a volleyball at 45.

 

[sammyk]

looks like we have an ath a lete I am under 6'. So you are saying that the middle class is shrinking Wisconsin is because enough people in the middle class moved up in class? I do not think so. the shrinking middle class is due to less jobs, less good paying jobs(now that Wiscky is a right to work state there will be fewer of those) and no pay raises. Yea that was hard to figure out

This post was edited on 4/14 9:38 AM by sammyk

This post was edited on 4/14 11:10 AM by sammyk

 

[njfan47]

You missed the point. My example was hypothetical because I don't have the statistics for Wisconsin. You don't either, but you draw a conclusion nonetheless! When I was fortunate to have moved out of the middle class in 2002, it became smaller by one person. Do you want to dispute that fact?

You need to come up with facts and/or sources to support your conclusion. Your economic knowledge is not sufficient enough to figure this out; actually it's no. If it were, you would know that conservative economics work better than liberal economics.

 

[sammyk]

Really trickle down economics worked great just ask Kansas who is expected to have a 436 million dollar shortfall and Wisconsin who your boy walker has had control of for what 4 years now will have a 2.2 billion dollar shortfall. Yep trickle down economics works

NC $300+Million shortfall
KS $600+ Million shortfall
Wisky $2.2 Billion shortfall
OK $611+Million shortfall
LA $1.6 Billion shortfall
AL $700+ Million shortfall
AZ $ 520 Million shortfall
NJ $ 1 Billion Shortfall

These numbers were taken from multiple sources

PA has a shortfall too under Republican leadership

So having shortfalls that means these Republican run states are being run better WOW

This post was edited on 4/14 11:54 AM by sammyk

This post was edited on 4/14 3:03 PM by sammyk

 

[njfan47]

This is where you get into trouble. Trickle-down refers to the higher earners doing well and their success helping others. State budget deficits is a completely different matter. Your figures need to be verified, but there are many reasons for state shortfalls. New Jersey, for example, is seeing a mass exodus because state income taxes and property taxes are so high. Both of these taxes are excessive due to liberals having run the state for decades. A GOP governor comes along (only because even the liberals, including my former boss, see that there needs to be change). The GOP governor can only do so much, because the tax revenues are needed to support all of the program set up by liberals.

The key point here, and this is what you continually misunderstand, is that as people move up, the tax burden increases. My state income taxes in NJ went up as I earned more each year, from $5,000 to $50,000 a year. No bragging here Sammy, it's for the sake of an example. So, I moved out of state. Many people have done the same thing. They are likely replaced by people who earn less, and therefore pay less state income taxes. Thus, the state sees a shortfall.

Unfortunately, you are one of those people who think that everything that happens under a current administration is directly related to their actions and has nothing to do with past policy. This might be regarded as shallow thinking!

 

[sammyk]

Which is terribly flawed. But I will use little ole North Carolina here who has been run by the GOP for several years now. Where there have been so many cuts to programs such as education both higher education and K-12, state parks, roads, but can give tax breaks to big business, charter schools monies. And here is the kicker the tax code here in NC has been revamped to where I have to pay the state money back as do many of my friends. So after all the cuts why do we owe??? Yep Republican math change the tax code on the middle class which they did and give the wealthy a break and still do not have enough money pay bills. Funny you bring up the problems of the present admin can be a result to present administrations, so could old GW be to blame for some of our problems or is it all Clintons fault

 

[njfan47]

You should move!


After reading your statement on GW, I will ask Sammy's eight-year-old son to give the computer back to Daddy.

 

[sammyk]

No wait a minute i thought Republican policies were awesome and your response is to move to where Kansas, New Jersey, Louisiana, Indiana where the Republicans are tearing it up, it is like the Republican playbook give tax breaks to big business for a few dozen jobs cut education, roads, and other services change the tax code have a shortfall and have the middle pay it back.

This post was edited on 4/16 11:21 AM by sammyk

This post was edited on 4/16 11:52 AM by sammyk

 

[njfan47]

You are free to go wherever you want to, right? I think you'd rather complain about your plight.

Republican policies work well, but it takes people who want to "bubba up" and get it done.

Where you get this middle class issue of having to "pay it back" is beyond me. Sounds like you haven't studied this too closely. People who make a half million dollars or more end up paying over $200,000 in taxes.

You should not be so influenced by the media!

 

[sammyk]

OK but according to the IRS

Households that make 40K-75K(middle class) average $523 in deductions where as a household making 250K plus(most places wealthy) gets about $5500. That is 10 times as much.

Also capital gaines are taxed at 15% not 35% for those top 20% earners

Americans with an annual salary of 1million or more or .3% of the tax payers get 70% of the capital gain benefits or breaks.

So not all monies are taxed the same and there are a lot more deductions and breaks for the wealthy. Those are just a few examples. So I guess the IRS is the liberal media now




This post was edited on 4/17 1:25 PM by sammyk

This post was edited on 4/17 1:33 PM by sammyk

 

[njfan47]

Sammy, first of all, middle class is not $40,000-75,000. If so, above $75,000 would be upper class -- this is nonsense. The rich have more deductions because they have more assets (property on which they pay large amounts of taxes that are deductible). And they get 70% of the capital gains benefits because they own substantially larger amounts of stock. You seem to miss the point and get caught up in percentages instead of looking at amounts of dollars that are paid by the "rich".

Regarding the taxes paid, you are throwing out a lot of numbers that you have found in some sort of Google search. So, let me give you a real life example. I know somebody who made $575,000 last year. They paid $179,175.67 in taxes. This includes $160,000 in income taxes, $11,520 in Medicare, and $7,254 in social security taxes. Add in property taxes and taxes paid on purchases and the amount goes to over $200,000. Add in 3.8% in taxes on stock gains (that apply only to married couples earning $250,000 or singles earning over $200,000 thanks to obamacare) and the amount jumps even more. Add in 38% on stock gains and the amount is now up to north of $225,000.

Get the picture? Don't tell me about people in the so-called upper class not paying taxes. Stop listening to the conventional wisdom as it is portrayed by the media.

This post was edited on 4/17 1:58 PM by njfan47

This post was edited on 4/17 2:01 PM by njfan47

 

[sammyk]

First 40k-75K is in the middle class range

Those are IRS numbers

I know no one who makes that much money I can put 13 teachers together and still fall short of that number. The highest paid person in education in the state of NC can't sniff that might make half that. $575K wow let me think about that is that person Mitt Romney, Oprah Winfrey, GOD??? So they paid about 30%. Wonder what kind of tax breaks they got??? Do you have those numbers

The rich get a ton of tax breaks plain and simple, a higher % than everyone else. .

This post was edited on 4/17 2:24 PM by sammyk

This post was edited on 4/17 2:26 PM by sammyk

 

[njfan47]

And the rate is far above 30%. $225,000 divided by $575,000 is 39.1%. This is for example only. I hesitated to bring it up, but wanted to demonstrate the $225,000 number to you. Conversely, the $225,000 equals the amount of taxes that maybe 15-18 people would pay in a year, based on the $40,000-45,000 range that you mentioned.

This post was edited on 4/20 3:47 PM by njfan47

 

[sammyk]

I do not think I can continue on here knowing that I mean you make 575K. That puts me in a very uncomfortable situation I think I will resign to the roach motel with all my other low level income friends. Kudos to you is there anyway I can pick through your garbage for you know upgrades to stuff I own?

This post was edited on 4/17 3:25 PM by sammyk

 

[njfan47]

Every job is important in my opinion. I stated out in the chemical industry 33 years ago making $3.10 an hour at the lowest level job in the company and kind of worked my way up. But all of this is just to show you, first-hand, how much in taxes some people pay.

Let's take Romney, for example. I have heard that his net worth is $250 million. For the sake of example, let's say that he puts all of it into one stock that has a 5% dividend yield. This gives him $12.5 million in income each year, on which he pays a 20% tax rate, or $2.5 million. So, while some people can say his 20% tax rate is low, what is important is the amount of dollars that he pays in. $2.5 million is a substantial amount. and would be equal to 11 of me.

Again, theoretical only, but if Romney were to buy something and spend his entire $250 million in doing so, he would pay a 6% sales tax rate, or $15 million. But this amount would flow into the government on a one-time basis. So, it is better for the government to take in the $2.5 million in dividend taxes each year. If he pays $2.5 million in dividend taxes each year, the IRS takes in $75 million over a 30-year period.

Those rich people aren't too bad after all!