With resume's due tomorrow and a VERY weak candidate pool so far the LS situation will get a lot worse before it get's better. If they go with one of these candidates they will only prove what I have stated earlier about their lack of commitment to football. The administration and the board need to get together and quickly build a plan or this will get bad. This years schedule is very tough and the underclassmen are very underwhelming which means the 2016 team could be the first below .500 team is a VERY long time. The lose of high profile offensive coaches will surely give SJP/Wood a leg up with recruiting skill players and the gap will widen
Embarrassing Candidate Pool
- Thread starter murphman1975
- Start date
Murph
Don't disagree with you, but who is out there that would be a strong candidate or an impressive hire?
Don't disagree with you, but who is out there that would be a strong candidate or an impressive hire?
It seems like the prep has had a leg up recruiting skill players for a few years now, theyre loaded with skill guys
Spider, fair question and I'm not sure I have a direct answer other than pointing back to my comments from a previous post about going outside of the typical LS network. The candidates I've heard about are either directly involved in the program or very unimpressive or both. I've also heard about two very qualified candidates that showed interest but after a little research decided not apply. A candidate from inside will not challenge the administration and will not effect change.
Fortunately for LaSalle, their future players are all playing CYO ball together at local feeder parishes and have been since they started playing football.
I thought everyone was gone from DG era? I would think LS is still a very attractive HC job, top 5 in-state, with a ton of tradition, even if Prep is all-in and school admin and alumni do not want to match resources. Surprising that a qualified candidate would be scared off after due diligence from LS program....Now if they do not offer a teaching job, then that is another story...Makes it a lot harder to attract outside experience..
Why would the coaching staff have to "challenge the administration"? The administration backs ALL sports at La Salle. Why would you want to "effect change"? You want to "change" from a winning culture?? Not for nothin' murphman, but you are being a real Dorothy Doomer. Sure, La Salle will be down for a bit, but it's not like they can gain back the PCL and City title next year or the year after that for that matter. The titles will reside at 17th and Girard for a some time. And as Spider mentioned, it's not as though Wyndmoor is now suddenly Siberia.
You have to look at the candidate pool in light of the circumstances:
1. You won't be paid like a certain CL coach is; many applicants automatically assumed that LS paid the same. Shock to them, LS pays the CL guideline which is over 140K less than a certain coach supposedly makes.
2. There is no "job" to go with the coaching gig so no opportunity to cash in there either like other high profile coaches who had a cupcake "job" made up for them with a nice fat salary attached to it.
LS will essentially hire from a pool that basically wants to coach at LaSalle; guys who aren't in it for the cash but are in it for the love of the game and love of the school and its' students. If you want to call it weak, I guess it is but considering the circumstances it is what should be expected. The pool is primarily former Gordon assistants from over the years and guys who misjudged the salary and probably aren't even interested now that they know what it pays. No, Brett Gordon is not one of the former assistants; has not applied and will not apply as stated the first day of Drew's resignation.
This post was edited on 2/27 9:38 AM by JBinPA
1. You won't be paid like a certain CL coach is; many applicants automatically assumed that LS paid the same. Shock to them, LS pays the CL guideline which is over 140K less than a certain coach supposedly makes.
2. There is no "job" to go with the coaching gig so no opportunity to cash in there either like other high profile coaches who had a cupcake "job" made up for them with a nice fat salary attached to it.
LS will essentially hire from a pool that basically wants to coach at LaSalle; guys who aren't in it for the cash but are in it for the love of the game and love of the school and its' students. If you want to call it weak, I guess it is but considering the circumstances it is what should be expected. The pool is primarily former Gordon assistants from over the years and guys who misjudged the salary and probably aren't even interested now that they know what it pays. No, Brett Gordon is not one of the former assistants; has not applied and will not apply as stated the first day of Drew's resignation.
This post was edited on 2/27 9:38 AM by JBinPA
Paul, unless you know the number of key players LS lost to SJP for the sake of 2K in financial aid, your argument goes nowhere. If LS wants to maintain their academic standards and also be equitable with their available financial resources, more power to them. As an alum, I'm proud that they don't lower standards, don't pay coaches obscene amounts of money and don't play games with their available financial aid..
Murph has been spot on with almost every single post; there is much more going on than what is apparent to the general public. It's nice to believe all will be well but it is no longer a level playing field for LS.
Murph has been spot on with almost every single post; there is much more going on than what is apparent to the general public. It's nice to believe all will be well but it is no longer a level playing field for LS.
If a kid is going to make a decision form one school or another for 2k, so be it. He is a special player even at the highest level I get it, if that player were in LS uniform instead of prep the last 2 years and the next 2 years, things would be different regarding prep vs LS based on one player....But not too many HS's doing what prep is doing in PA. All in on financial aid and requirements and a school position for high profile coach, maybe in north jersey or DC, a little in MD.
Wood is having similar success, but totally different model with the cost of the school and requirements, they attract players because of great coaching, cost, and the fact that there are not as many options in Bucks county relative to other counties. Success recruits for you...Wood, LS or prep....or pub...
Lastly, not defending LS, because losing DG makes no sense...But not that many rock star HS coaches out there, and would need more than a few weeks to plan to get one...
Wood is having similar success, but totally different model with the cost of the school and requirements, they attract players because of great coaching, cost, and the fact that there are not as many options in Bucks county relative to other counties. Success recruits for you...Wood, LS or prep....or pub...
Lastly, not defending LS, because losing DG makes no sense...But not that many rock star HS coaches out there, and would need more than a few weeks to plan to get one...
Plausible deniability
JBisaPAin -
So LS has a coaching succession issue and it's SJP to blame. I can't figure the culture out over the on the hill ?? As you say, what facts do you have? SJP coach is in house, but, the number you mentioned is so far off, it's insulting. You have no facts on that. It's hearsay so try to avoid your double standards. Having a coach that teaches and can be there is a great asset, ask the publics. It was a good decision by SJP. Maybe LS should consider and maybe that is what you reference by administration issues?
As far as the student population and pool, yes, SJP draw a similar student. However, to suggest that SJP is outbidding and throwing money at families is reckless. I'll give you an example and I will not name anyone, but this did happen in the last two years (more than once). Family shows up at LS for open house, etc - speaks to coach and discussion is about football only and tradition and winning. Same family shows up at SJP for open house, etc - speaks to coach and discussion is about culture, meaning, it's academics first and sports second, the entire conversation revolved around learning and experiences related to sports, not sports itself. Family chose SJP for that reason, and guess what, LS called and ponied up more $ but family declined.
Also, to insinuate that standards are lowered at SJP compared to LS is challengable. Frankly, based on testing and results, it's more difficult to get into SJP. There are a few families that did not get into SJP but got into LS. SJP loses approximately 40 students from freshmen a year, and 60 total a year, due to academic rigors. Also, SJP does not have the benefit of the David School which serves a number of purposes. There's no doubt that a few students from LS who are athletes over the years attended the David School. And before anyone bashes that comment, I have a special needs child. It would be great if SJP had such a resource since the Jesuits are great educators.
It's funny when SJP went through this a few years back. The bashing of SJP and the process was brutal. Now, the same cycle has come to LS and there is still finger pointing at someone else. I believe that mentality, in and of itself, is what defines the difference in cultures. I haven't noticed one person on here bash LS from any other school. Seemingly it seemed as though LS was questioning itself for the most part, but now it's someone else to blame which requires defending.
Good luck on the LS coach search. You've still got all the other sports and championships to which the board is constantly reminded. Now, a little adversity and its sour grapes? Certainly comes off as spoiled to me.
JBisaPAin -
So LS has a coaching succession issue and it's SJP to blame. I can't figure the culture out over the on the hill ?? As you say, what facts do you have? SJP coach is in house, but, the number you mentioned is so far off, it's insulting. You have no facts on that. It's hearsay so try to avoid your double standards. Having a coach that teaches and can be there is a great asset, ask the publics. It was a good decision by SJP. Maybe LS should consider and maybe that is what you reference by administration issues?
As far as the student population and pool, yes, SJP draw a similar student. However, to suggest that SJP is outbidding and throwing money at families is reckless. I'll give you an example and I will not name anyone, but this did happen in the last two years (more than once). Family shows up at LS for open house, etc - speaks to coach and discussion is about football only and tradition and winning. Same family shows up at SJP for open house, etc - speaks to coach and discussion is about culture, meaning, it's academics first and sports second, the entire conversation revolved around learning and experiences related to sports, not sports itself. Family chose SJP for that reason, and guess what, LS called and ponied up more $ but family declined.
Also, to insinuate that standards are lowered at SJP compared to LS is challengable. Frankly, based on testing and results, it's more difficult to get into SJP. There are a few families that did not get into SJP but got into LS. SJP loses approximately 40 students from freshmen a year, and 60 total a year, due to academic rigors. Also, SJP does not have the benefit of the David School which serves a number of purposes. There's no doubt that a few students from LS who are athletes over the years attended the David School. And before anyone bashes that comment, I have a special needs child. It would be great if SJP had such a resource since the Jesuits are great educators.
It's funny when SJP went through this a few years back. The bashing of SJP and the process was brutal. Now, the same cycle has come to LS and there is still finger pointing at someone else. I believe that mentality, in and of itself, is what defines the difference in cultures. I haven't noticed one person on here bash LS from any other school. Seemingly it seemed as though LS was questioning itself for the most part, but now it's someone else to blame which requires defending.
Good luck on the LS coach search. You've still got all the other sports and championships to which the board is constantly reminded. Now, a little adversity and its sour grapes? Certainly comes off as spoiled to me.
I hate to ruin some good soul searching by LS at the expense of history, but, ' high profile coach '? Really ?? Five years ago, that decision was trampled. He had never been a head coach and was an unknown from NJ. Unbelievable !! Give the man credit for what he's done. He took advantage of trust that was put into him. It was not an easy process or decision and many at SJP were not on board. If LS gets anyone even close to him, they'll be better off.
"It is no longer a level playing field for La Salle." I agree. For football. I said in my earlier post that the championships for the PCL and City will be at 17th and Girard for some time, just as they resided in Cheltenham for some time. And you can't dismiss the success the school has in all other sports by saying "Well football is the one we want." This whole idea of "confronting the administration" is nonsense.
Just to chime in here I'm neither a Prep or LaSalle guy, but after reading on this post that prep is harder to get in to the LaSalle is false, I know for a fact there is a few 8th graders (football players) this year and a few in the past few years who were accepted to prep but could not get accepted to LaSalle and those few kids are not good academic students BUT they are football players. Gordon saying LaSalle needs to lower the standards is a slap in the face to LaSalle. My opinion Lasalle will keep getting the same kids they have been an still be successful at every sport. Eventually it will haunt prep because the kids can't make the grade.
Re: Plausible deniability
Kinda want to throw my 2 cents in on this issue with an outside view. I'm a Judge guy and really hold no ill will towards LaSalle or Prep. I like to stir the pot a bit sometimes but no disdain for either one of them. I root for both in states and root against them when they're playing FJ. I don't care who goes where or who coaches at one school or the other. From what I've read it seems that LaSalle admin has made the decision that students will not be receiving scholarship money unless they deserve it for being a scholarship student. I respect the education offered at LS and Prep, have no idea if one is better than the other and again really don't care. A diploma from either is nice to have on a college app. I don't know for sure that the situation at LaSalle is the what I perceive it to be. However, if it is, I have to give nothing but respect to the LaSalle admin for putting education first and foremost, with sports being an extracurricular activity. I love HS football as much as everybody posting on here. Love the rivalries and all the banter that comes with it. I get caught up in it as much as anybody, but putting education before athletics is a huge win for LaSalle in my book.
Kinda want to throw my 2 cents in on this issue with an outside view. I'm a Judge guy and really hold no ill will towards LaSalle or Prep. I like to stir the pot a bit sometimes but no disdain for either one of them. I root for both in states and root against them when they're playing FJ. I don't care who goes where or who coaches at one school or the other. From what I've read it seems that LaSalle admin has made the decision that students will not be receiving scholarship money unless they deserve it for being a scholarship student. I respect the education offered at LS and Prep, have no idea if one is better than the other and again really don't care. A diploma from either is nice to have on a college app. I don't know for sure that the situation at LaSalle is the what I perceive it to be. However, if it is, I have to give nothing but respect to the LaSalle admin for putting education first and foremost, with sports being an extracurricular activity. I love HS football as much as everybody posting on here. Love the rivalries and all the banter that comes with it. I get caught up in it as much as anybody, but putting education before athletics is a huge win for LaSalle in my book.
I think a lot of people are missing my point here. I respect the academic standards of both schools. Both are highly regarded and respected academic institutions. I am not suggesting in anyway the LS lower its standards to improve athletics and I am 1000% sure neither Gordon ever suggested that.
LS has done things the same way for 50 yrs with regards to financial aid. Times have changed and the administration at LS needs to make a choice:
1. Be creative and adjust the financial aid philosophy to stay competitive with SJP
- this of course needs to be within the guidelines of the application process. The kids must pass the test and the interview and the parents must show they are in support of a student athlete and not a football player. This is SO easily vetted.
2. Accept that their football program will steadily decline and never be at the level of SJP or at the level it has been over the last 18 years.
Right now the choice of the admistration of the last 3 years has clearly been #2. That's the real reason the Gordon's left an the real reason they won't get anything other than a second rate former assistant as their new head coach.
Those of you that think this is a cycle are sadly mistaken. It may have been in the past but with the aggressive nature SJP, Wood and others are coming after kids and throwing money around it is literally impossible to compete unless LS adjusts their philosophy. Times have changed.
What's worse is that LS's alumni is filled with very smart, very
creative people who are willing to assist in helping the school
structure a system that has boundaries and maintains the ethical
standard of the school. This has been pitched numerous times to the
current administration and their response is very simple. Not
interested, not how we do things. That closed minded nature will be the downfall of the football program. On a side note, hopefully they can find a way for their history department to try and not sleep during 60% of the classes!
LS has done things the same way for 50 yrs with regards to financial aid. Times have changed and the administration at LS needs to make a choice:
1. Be creative and adjust the financial aid philosophy to stay competitive with SJP
- this of course needs to be within the guidelines of the application process. The kids must pass the test and the interview and the parents must show they are in support of a student athlete and not a football player. This is SO easily vetted.
2. Accept that their football program will steadily decline and never be at the level of SJP or at the level it has been over the last 18 years.
Right now the choice of the admistration of the last 3 years has clearly been #2. That's the real reason the Gordon's left an the real reason they won't get anything other than a second rate former assistant as their new head coach.
Those of you that think this is a cycle are sadly mistaken. It may have been in the past but with the aggressive nature SJP, Wood and others are coming after kids and throwing money around it is literally impossible to compete unless LS adjusts their philosophy. Times have changed.
What's worse is that LS's alumni is filled with very smart, very
creative people who are willing to assist in helping the school
structure a system that has boundaries and maintains the ethical
standard of the school. This has been pitched numerous times to the
current administration and their response is very simple. Not
interested, not how we do things. That closed minded nature will be the downfall of the football program. On a side note, hopefully they can find a way for their history department to try and not sleep during 60% of the classes!
Roxy-
Not sure where you read any disrespect in "high profile coach" Great coach indeed, great passion, and relates to kids very well. Nothing but respect for him, enjoy watching him coach. LS or any other HS would be lucky to have him...
Not sure where you read any disrespect in "high profile coach" Great coach indeed, great passion, and relates to kids very well. Nothing but respect for him, enjoy watching him coach. LS or any other HS would be lucky to have him...
Re: Plausible deniability
Like Jive- I am an outsider but fan of both Prep and LS and all city and PCL sports.....Sounds like the LS guys that mention prep are not blaming Prep, they are blaming LS for not being more like prep....
Like Jive- I am an outsider but fan of both Prep and LS and all city and PCL sports.....Sounds like the LS guys that mention prep are not blaming Prep, they are blaming LS for not being more like prep....
Re: Plausible deniability
Jive, I totally agree with your academics priority. Wonder what would happen if Drew G. surfaces at another Catholic League school. My bet is that he would be a big draw for Phila. area athletes and schools wanting to compete for championships.. Just a wild thought !
Jive, I totally agree with your academics priority. Wonder what would happen if Drew G. surfaces at another Catholic League school. My bet is that he would be a big draw for Phila. area athletes and schools wanting to compete for championships.. Just a wild thought !
Re: Plausible deniability
Man, Lasalle is in a tough spot. Very tough spot. I am just going to say it, having a great football team means nothing to the establishment, the board of trustees or quite frankly the vast alumni (I am one). And I think if we were all quite honest, wether it be public or private, winning a state championship is nice, but it wouldn't be top priority for all but a few schools, and those schools are well represented on this forum. And I have absolutely no problem with those priorities...I root like heck for all those schools. I will say in the DG era there has been an almost nonsensical fanaticism with beating the Prep. And I don't know for the life of me why. Great rivalry yes. But we are at the point of unhealthy hate. Both schools have different missions and do great things. If the worse thing Lasalle does is can't beat the prep in football...I can sleep. Maybe for this newer generation of LS people it isn't ok. We will see.
Man, Lasalle is in a tough spot. Very tough spot. I am just going to say it, having a great football team means nothing to the establishment, the board of trustees or quite frankly the vast alumni (I am one). And I think if we were all quite honest, wether it be public or private, winning a state championship is nice, but it wouldn't be top priority for all but a few schools, and those schools are well represented on this forum. And I have absolutely no problem with those priorities...I root like heck for all those schools. I will say in the DG era there has been an almost nonsensical fanaticism with beating the Prep. And I don't know for the life of me why. Great rivalry yes. But we are at the point of unhealthy hate. Both schools have different missions and do great things. If the worse thing Lasalle does is can't beat the prep in football...I can sleep. Maybe for this newer generation of LS people it isn't ok. We will see.
Re: Plausible deniability
Spot on pclfan 1. Couldn't have said it better. Granted I can say that after the run they just had but to be truthful, when I went there, we sucked.....big time. And I don't think we missed out on anything.
Spot on pclfan 1. Couldn't have said it better. Granted I can say that after the run they just had but to be truthful, when I went there, we sucked.....big time. And I don't think we missed out on anything.
Just to be clear, I never stated that "Gordon said LaSalle needs to lower the standards"; if I gave that impression I was wrong. I have no idea how Drew feels on that but I would think he is fine with present standards as is.
The real issue I believe was more financial aid than standards based.
This post was edited on 2/27 2:26 PM by JBinPA
The real issue I believe was more financial aid than standards based.
This post was edited on 2/27 2:26 PM by JBinPA
Re: Plausible deniability
Roxy, one of these days you'll learn to read and write simple English:
So LS has a coaching succession issue and it's SJP to blame.(NEVER SAID THIS IF YOU HAVE BEEN PAYING ATTENTION; I SAID NUMEROUS TIMES THAT THE FINANCIAL INCENTIVES OTHERS OFFER MAY HAVE ENTERED INTO DGS DECISION. NEVER MENTIONED SJP BEING TO BLAME FOR A THING; ITS A LS ADMINISTRATION CHOICE) I can't figure the culture out over the on the hill ?? As you say, what facts do you have? SJP coach is in house, but, the number you mentioned is so far off, it's insulting. (THE NUMBER I ALMOST MENTIONED IS THE NUMBER MAKING THE ROUNDS OF PCL MEETINGS AND OUTSIDE DISCUSSIONS) You have no facts on that. It's hearsay so try to avoid your double standards. Having a coach that teaches and can be there is a great asset, ask the publics. (HOW ABOUT WE ASK THE COACH TO MAKE HIS TAX RETURN PUBLIC AND THAT WOULD ANSWER ALL QUESTIONS; PERHAPS YOU ARE THE ONE WHO DOES NOT HAVE THEIR FACTS STRAIGHT). It was a good decision by SJP.(AGREED) Maybe LS should consider and maybe that is what you reference by administration issues? (LS' ADMINISTRATION WILL DO WHAT THEY BELIEVE IS BEST FOR THEIR STUDENTS AND ATHLETES; IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SJP)
As far as the student population and pool, yes, SJP draw a similar student. However, to suggest that SJP is outbidding and throwing money at families is reckless. I'll give you an example and I will not name anyone, but this did happen in the last two years (more than once). Family shows up at LS for open house, etc - speaks to coach and discussion is about football only and tradition and winning. Same family shows up at SJP for open house, etc - speaks to coach and discussion is about culture, meaning, it's academics first and sports second, the entire conversation revolved around learning and experiences related to sports, not sports itself. Family chose SJP for that reason, and guess what, LS called and ponied up more $ but family declined. (AND I'LL GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE, A RB DECIDES ON LS OVER SJP, EVERYTHING IS SET AND AT THE LAST MINUTE SJP CALLS AND UPS THEIR FINANCIAL AID PACKAGE 2K. KID IS HEARTBROKEN BUT FAMILY CHANGES TO SJP AND I FOR ONE, DON'T BLAME THEM IN THE LEAST. HE IS FROM A LOWER INCOME FAMILY AND 2K MEANS A GREAT DEAL IN THAT SITUATION.)
Also, to insinuate that standards are lowered at SJP compared to LS is challengable. (NOT SURE I EVER SAID A WORD ABOUT SJP STANDARDS. i DID SAY THAT LS APPEARS UNWILLING TO LOWER THEIR STANDARDS ON ACADEMICS. IF YOU TOOK THAT AS A SJP COMMENT, YOU HAVE ISSUES, NOT ME). Frankly, based on testing and results, it's more difficult to get into SJP. There are a few families that did not get into SJP but got into LS. SJP loses approximately 40 students from freshmen a year, and 60 total a year, due to academic rigors. Also, SJP does not have the benefit of the David School which serves a number of purposes. There's no doubt that a few students from LS who are athletes over the years attended the David School. (NAME A FEW; I FOR ONE AM CURIOUS) And before anyone bashes that comment, I have a special needs child. It would be great if SJP had such a resource since the Jesuits are great educators.
It's funny when SJP went through this a few years back. The bashing of SJP and the process was brutal. Now, the same cycle has come to LS and there is still finger pointing at someone else. I believe that mentality, in and of itself, is what defines the difference in cultures. I haven't noticed one person on here bash LS from any other school. Seemingly it seemed as though LS was questioning itself for the most part, but now it's someone else to blame which requires defending. (PEOPLE HAD QUESTIONS ABOUT WHY DG WOULD RESIGN. DELVING INTO THAT TAKES YOU TO THE AREA OF BEING COMPETITIVE AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL AND IF THE SCHOOL IS TRULY COMMITTED TO THAT. NOBODY IS BLAMING SJP BUT WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT COMPETING AT THE HIGHEST LEVELS IN THIS AREA YOU'RE SPEAKING ABOUT SJP. YOU SHOULD BE PROUD NOT DISJOINTED.)
Good luck on the LS coach search. (THANK YOU) You've still got all the other sports and championships to which the board is constantly reminded. (YES WE DO, QUITE AN ANNUAL HAUL, ISN'T IT?) Now, a little adversity and its sour grapes? Certainly comes off as spoiled to me. (IF THAT'S HOW YOU SEE IT)
Roxy, one of these days you'll learn to read and write simple English:
So LS has a coaching succession issue and it's SJP to blame.(NEVER SAID THIS IF YOU HAVE BEEN PAYING ATTENTION; I SAID NUMEROUS TIMES THAT THE FINANCIAL INCENTIVES OTHERS OFFER MAY HAVE ENTERED INTO DGS DECISION. NEVER MENTIONED SJP BEING TO BLAME FOR A THING; ITS A LS ADMINISTRATION CHOICE) I can't figure the culture out over the on the hill ?? As you say, what facts do you have? SJP coach is in house, but, the number you mentioned is so far off, it's insulting. (THE NUMBER I ALMOST MENTIONED IS THE NUMBER MAKING THE ROUNDS OF PCL MEETINGS AND OUTSIDE DISCUSSIONS) You have no facts on that. It's hearsay so try to avoid your double standards. Having a coach that teaches and can be there is a great asset, ask the publics. (HOW ABOUT WE ASK THE COACH TO MAKE HIS TAX RETURN PUBLIC AND THAT WOULD ANSWER ALL QUESTIONS; PERHAPS YOU ARE THE ONE WHO DOES NOT HAVE THEIR FACTS STRAIGHT). It was a good decision by SJP.(AGREED) Maybe LS should consider and maybe that is what you reference by administration issues? (LS' ADMINISTRATION WILL DO WHAT THEY BELIEVE IS BEST FOR THEIR STUDENTS AND ATHLETES; IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SJP)
As far as the student population and pool, yes, SJP draw a similar student. However, to suggest that SJP is outbidding and throwing money at families is reckless. I'll give you an example and I will not name anyone, but this did happen in the last two years (more than once). Family shows up at LS for open house, etc - speaks to coach and discussion is about football only and tradition and winning. Same family shows up at SJP for open house, etc - speaks to coach and discussion is about culture, meaning, it's academics first and sports second, the entire conversation revolved around learning and experiences related to sports, not sports itself. Family chose SJP for that reason, and guess what, LS called and ponied up more $ but family declined. (AND I'LL GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE, A RB DECIDES ON LS OVER SJP, EVERYTHING IS SET AND AT THE LAST MINUTE SJP CALLS AND UPS THEIR FINANCIAL AID PACKAGE 2K. KID IS HEARTBROKEN BUT FAMILY CHANGES TO SJP AND I FOR ONE, DON'T BLAME THEM IN THE LEAST. HE IS FROM A LOWER INCOME FAMILY AND 2K MEANS A GREAT DEAL IN THAT SITUATION.)
Also, to insinuate that standards are lowered at SJP compared to LS is challengable. (NOT SURE I EVER SAID A WORD ABOUT SJP STANDARDS. i DID SAY THAT LS APPEARS UNWILLING TO LOWER THEIR STANDARDS ON ACADEMICS. IF YOU TOOK THAT AS A SJP COMMENT, YOU HAVE ISSUES, NOT ME). Frankly, based on testing and results, it's more difficult to get into SJP. There are a few families that did not get into SJP but got into LS. SJP loses approximately 40 students from freshmen a year, and 60 total a year, due to academic rigors. Also, SJP does not have the benefit of the David School which serves a number of purposes. There's no doubt that a few students from LS who are athletes over the years attended the David School. (NAME A FEW; I FOR ONE AM CURIOUS) And before anyone bashes that comment, I have a special needs child. It would be great if SJP had such a resource since the Jesuits are great educators.
It's funny when SJP went through this a few years back. The bashing of SJP and the process was brutal. Now, the same cycle has come to LS and there is still finger pointing at someone else. I believe that mentality, in and of itself, is what defines the difference in cultures. I haven't noticed one person on here bash LS from any other school. Seemingly it seemed as though LS was questioning itself for the most part, but now it's someone else to blame which requires defending. (PEOPLE HAD QUESTIONS ABOUT WHY DG WOULD RESIGN. DELVING INTO THAT TAKES YOU TO THE AREA OF BEING COMPETITIVE AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL AND IF THE SCHOOL IS TRULY COMMITTED TO THAT. NOBODY IS BLAMING SJP BUT WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT COMPETING AT THE HIGHEST LEVELS IN THIS AREA YOU'RE SPEAKING ABOUT SJP. YOU SHOULD BE PROUD NOT DISJOINTED.)
Good luck on the LS coach search. (THANK YOU) You've still got all the other sports and championships to which the board is constantly reminded. (YES WE DO, QUITE AN ANNUAL HAUL, ISN'T IT?) Now, a little adversity and its sour grapes? Certainly comes off as spoiled to me. (IF THAT'S HOW YOU SEE IT)
pclfan, interesting comments about football meaning nothing to the school and you not caring about championships. In case you forgot what website you were on this one is dedicated to HS Football. Remind me the last time 10,000 people showed up to watch another sport or school activity? By the looks of the PW parking lot it seems to be that many people do care and see the true value of what a football program brings to the school. How about, Spirit, Pride, Revenue, Positive Press and a pretty nice recruiting tool for non athletes.
As for the unhealthy hate comment you completely are misguided. DG and Gabe are actually quite friendly.
Yes, the rivalry is intense and as it should be. Calling it "unhealthy hate" is a little too NJ housewives for me. Doesn't sound like you are too competitive but having drive, passion and a will to win is what makes the world go round and that accurately describes both sides of the rivalry. No disrespect to the rest of the league but the only game that really matters for either school is the Championship gm which SJP and LS have been in forever. Kinda hard not to make that the focal point of the season.
As for the unhealthy hate comment you completely are misguided. DG and Gabe are actually quite friendly.
Yes, the rivalry is intense and as it should be. Calling it "unhealthy hate" is a little too NJ housewives for me. Doesn't sound like you are too competitive but having drive, passion and a will to win is what makes the world go round and that accurately describes both sides of the rivalry. No disrespect to the rest of the league but the only game that really matters for either school is the Championship gm which SJP and LS have been in forever. Kinda hard not to make that the focal point of the season.
Re: Plausible deniability
pcl, there is nothing unhealthy about fierce rivalries and LS - SJP is fierce on both sides. This rivalry was fierce long before DG took over the reins. Also, to equate rivalry with hatred is going a bit overboard with the hyperbole.
I enjoy beating SJP at everything; I do not hate the people nor the school.
pcl, there is nothing unhealthy about fierce rivalries and LS - SJP is fierce on both sides. This rivalry was fierce long before DG took over the reins. Also, to equate rivalry with hatred is going a bit overboard with the hyperbole.
I enjoy beating SJP at everything; I do not hate the people nor the school.
Re: Plausible deniability
JB,
Sorry for the delay in responding. I had to look up 'hyperbole' (I'm not a LS or SJP guy, so forgive me for my ignorance! and I'm not exaggerating)
I agree with the idea that a healthy rivalry is good for both schools, and the Catholic League generally. From us 'outsiders', the SJP and LS alums have a lot more in common than you have differences.
To address another post, Coach Infante relayed to the SJP parents prior to last year's Hershey game about the assistance and guidance Coach Gordon provided re what to expect. Thus, any 'animosity' between the two is fabricated, IMO. (JB, fabricated means 'made up'.)
This post was edited on 2/27 3:28 PM by franklinfield
JB,
Sorry for the delay in responding. I had to look up 'hyperbole' (I'm not a LS or SJP guy, so forgive me for my ignorance! and I'm not exaggerating)
I agree with the idea that a healthy rivalry is good for both schools, and the Catholic League generally. From us 'outsiders', the SJP and LS alums have a lot more in common than you have differences.
To address another post, Coach Infante relayed to the SJP parents prior to last year's Hershey game about the assistance and guidance Coach Gordon provided re what to expect. Thus, any 'animosity' between the two is fabricated, IMO. (JB, fabricated means 'made up'.)
This post was edited on 2/27 3:28 PM by franklinfield
Re: Plausible deniability
No JB in this case you are wrong my man. The rivalry is fierce and right now you have a breed of people sending their kids to Lasalle that feel it is their birthright to win a state championship. This is not the beat the Prep at Thanksgiving type of thing.
I have to call it like I see it. Of course you enjoy beating Prep at everything, and quite honestly, Lasalle does a heck of a job of that except right now for football. But this undercurrent.......not healthy my man.
No JB in this case you are wrong my man. The rivalry is fierce and right now you have a breed of people sending their kids to Lasalle that feel it is their birthright to win a state championship. This is not the beat the Prep at Thanksgiving type of thing.
I have to call it like I see it. Of course you enjoy beating Prep at everything, and quite honestly, Lasalle does a heck of a job of that except right now for football. But this undercurrent.......not healthy my man.
Here is where you sound like a dolt. You want me to spend $21,000 so my kid can say his hs football team beat the Prep?
You started this thread saying the candidates to replace DG were "embarassing" and that LS was going to lose "recruits" to the Prep. And then you will come on here calling public school parents whiners when they bring this back up to you.
Get a grip dude. I want LS to be relevent as much as you do. Let's see what happens.
You started this thread saying the candidates to replace DG were "embarassing" and that LS was going to lose "recruits" to the Prep. And then you will come on here calling public school parents whiners when they bring this back up to you.
Get a grip dude. I want LS to be relevent as much as you do. Let's see what happens.
Pcl, I'd suggest you thoroughly re read my posts. Re read JB's too and maybe after that you'll have a clue.
So Murhp and JB-
Deadline is past all applications in hand.....Who is the short list and how long will a decision take?
Deadline is past all applications in hand.....Who is the short list and how long will a decision take?
Hook -
It's well known that Prep's test is shorter in time and more intense. Why? Because the vast majority of students who are predetermined to go to LS simply use the Prep's entrance test as a warm up since Prep's test has historically been before LS. Over the last 20 years, I've fielded that call from associates, family members and neighbors alike. Each school will likely accept students that the other doesn't. As far as a ' few football players', I'm not so sure? Right now, SJP has a great coach and a ton of momentum. It means a lot. LS was able to experience the same momentum recently. Now, Prep is on a roll and the explanation is that the standards are compromised and the money is flowing? To use that logic (excuse), then why not swimming and baseball or Lacrosse? ... Not sure what else LS iis considered a powerhouse whether by themselves or others?
It's well known that Prep's test is shorter in time and more intense. Why? Because the vast majority of students who are predetermined to go to LS simply use the Prep's entrance test as a warm up since Prep's test has historically been before LS. Over the last 20 years, I've fielded that call from associates, family members and neighbors alike. Each school will likely accept students that the other doesn't. As far as a ' few football players', I'm not so sure? Right now, SJP has a great coach and a ton of momentum. It means a lot. LS was able to experience the same momentum recently. Now, Prep is on a roll and the explanation is that the standards are compromised and the money is flowing? To use that logic (excuse), then why not swimming and baseball or Lacrosse? ... Not sure what else LS iis considered a powerhouse whether by themselves or others?
Re: Plausible deniability
What's wrong BJ ?? Too much punctuation?? How about the logical and rhetorical analysis ?? If my work is so poor, then why copy ? Immitation is the greatest form of flattery.
1) So LS cycles down and its "others" ?? And "financial incentives" ? Need to remember that when SJP cycles down eventually. Fortunately it's not coaching itself?!
2) "The number you almost mentioned"?? But, "it's the number making the rounds" ?? This commentary speaks for itself
3) "Make the tax return public" ? So it's a public position? You are more naive then suspected if you believe the football coach is highest paid. Too many excellent educators there would rebel if that were the case - apply some logic.
4) If ... If ... If it has nothing to do with SJP, then why the comparisons throughout? Then simply accept the position of the administration?
5) The RB - good for him ... Obviously the aid was based on need.
6) The insinuation is the only way anyone else in the PCL can compete is to lower standards to accepting anyone. If not, why wouldn't every student simply choose LS?
7) David school - I don't use names but it's known and accepted. Frankly, you mentioned one of them in previous thread. He was a very good player at a heady position.
8) Pressure does different things to different people. Can't say what effect was on coach but the entire staff was "disjointed" for some time.
9) PCL champs - "quite a haul"? So adversity hits in one sport and the sky is falling? SJP has new lacrosse coach - lookout!
10) That's certainly how it appears.
What's wrong BJ ?? Too much punctuation?? How about the logical and rhetorical analysis ?? If my work is so poor, then why copy ? Immitation is the greatest form of flattery.
1) So LS cycles down and its "others" ?? And "financial incentives" ? Need to remember that when SJP cycles down eventually. Fortunately it's not coaching itself?!
2) "The number you almost mentioned"?? But, "it's the number making the rounds" ?? This commentary speaks for itself
3) "Make the tax return public" ? So it's a public position? You are more naive then suspected if you believe the football coach is highest paid. Too many excellent educators there would rebel if that were the case - apply some logic.
4) If ... If ... If it has nothing to do with SJP, then why the comparisons throughout? Then simply accept the position of the administration?
5) The RB - good for him ... Obviously the aid was based on need.
6) The insinuation is the only way anyone else in the PCL can compete is to lower standards to accepting anyone. If not, why wouldn't every student simply choose LS?
7) David school - I don't use names but it's known and accepted. Frankly, you mentioned one of them in previous thread. He was a very good player at a heady position.
8) Pressure does different things to different people. Can't say what effect was on coach but the entire staff was "disjointed" for some time.
9) PCL champs - "quite a haul"? So adversity hits in one sport and the sky is falling? SJP has new lacrosse coach - lookout!
10) That's certainly how it appears.
Roxy, can you have an ounce of objectivity? We are all saying that SJP's administration is more supportive, creative and seemingly more committed to the football program than LS. Isn't that satisfaction enough? In addition, Infante does a great job and the LS coaches would say the same thing. Thank God for the Gordon's and Shurmur or the scores the last two years would have been even worse. AND to top it all off one of the most explosive (IMO) RB's in the cities history has two more years at SJP and he was mins away from being at LS.
The age old argument of which school is tougher to get into or which one has better academics is a complete waste of time. Both schools have impressive resumes and both schools are top notch in terms of academics. Let's stop trying to prove who is better academically, its just silly.
It is a FACT that both Infante and Speedy both have 100K+ salaries. I also believe they both report directly to the president not the AD. Don't argue this as it is widely know and not at all speculation. FYI - Brady from Malvern is in a similar situation and across the country this is very common. Don't kid yourself, those excellent educators have plenty to say about it. Same story at LS with the business office or funraiser group. They make more money than the teachers and aren't shy to complain about it.
The David Program is something that truly sets LS apart and it should applauded! Any student that is a part of that program and participates in any sport should be celebrated.
Reminder - every sport has its own dynamic and this site is about football.
The age old argument of which school is tougher to get into or which one has better academics is a complete waste of time. Both schools have impressive resumes and both schools are top notch in terms of academics. Let's stop trying to prove who is better academically, its just silly.
It is a FACT that both Infante and Speedy both have 100K+ salaries. I also believe they both report directly to the president not the AD. Don't argue this as it is widely know and not at all speculation. FYI - Brady from Malvern is in a similar situation and across the country this is very common. Don't kid yourself, those excellent educators have plenty to say about it. Same story at LS with the business office or funraiser group. They make more money than the teachers and aren't shy to complain about it.
The David Program is something that truly sets LS apart and it should applauded! Any student that is a part of that program and participates in any sport should be celebrated.
Reminder - every sport has its own dynamic and this site is about football.
I agree with what you say about the pointlessness of comparing the two schools in relation to their admission requirements. Both schools are committed to accepting and supporting--not just financially--students from disadvantaged backgrounds, most of whom are not athletes. Thus it's going to happen that some applicants are admitted to one school and not the other. It's also the case that some 8th graders that coaches at each school would love to have are not offered places because the admissions people don't have evidence the potential students can make it academically. And, as Roxy said, the Prep loses a number of students, including promising athletes, every year because they can't manage the academic requirements. I don't know about if that is as true at LaSalle. It may well be.
If you knew Fr. Bur (SJP's president), you would have a very hard time believing Infante and Speedy report to him. The AD (Jim Murray) graduated in the same year from the Prep as Fr. Bur (1959). Fr. Bur would not have any coach not report to Murray. It's also the case that Murray doesn't micromanage any of the coaches or programs. Jim Glavin, for instance runs the very successful crew program and he has no more--or less--of a reporting relationship with Murray than Infante does. I know there are places where the AD looks over the coaches' shoulders. Not at SJP.
And, last, a general point in response to some things others have said on here. The LaSalle-Prep rivalry has been big in very recent years, but it's not the age-old rivalry some think it is. I can't remember a PCL football championship in which the two teams played each other before 2006. Maybe it happened once or twice in the previous 25 years. Yes, there was the Thanksgiving game, but that was mainly a social occasion--and in any case the Prep played Roman on Thanksgiving because each was the other's main rival.In '07, '08, '10, and '11 either the Prep (three times) or LaSalle (once) didn't make it to the championship. Things go in cycles--and that goes for all sports. At one time Bonner and the Prep had the strongest swimming programs. Not long ago, O'Hara and not LaSalle was the Prep's main football challenger. It might even happen that LaSalle's crew surpasses the Prep's after decades in which the Prep's crew has been dominant.
If you knew Fr. Bur (SJP's president), you would have a very hard time believing Infante and Speedy report to him. The AD (Jim Murray) graduated in the same year from the Prep as Fr. Bur (1959). Fr. Bur would not have any coach not report to Murray. It's also the case that Murray doesn't micromanage any of the coaches or programs. Jim Glavin, for instance runs the very successful crew program and he has no more--or less--of a reporting relationship with Murray than Infante does. I know there are places where the AD looks over the coaches' shoulders. Not at SJP.
And, last, a general point in response to some things others have said on here. The LaSalle-Prep rivalry has been big in very recent years, but it's not the age-old rivalry some think it is. I can't remember a PCL football championship in which the two teams played each other before 2006. Maybe it happened once or twice in the previous 25 years. Yes, there was the Thanksgiving game, but that was mainly a social occasion--and in any case the Prep played Roman on Thanksgiving because each was the other's main rival.In '07, '08, '10, and '11 either the Prep (three times) or LaSalle (once) didn't make it to the championship. Things go in cycles--and that goes for all sports. At one time Bonner and the Prep had the strongest swimming programs. Not long ago, O'Hara and not LaSalle was the Prep's main football challenger. It might even happen that LaSalle's crew surpasses the Prep's after decades in which the Prep's crew has been dominant.
Great thread! Some super "schreibtisch" work from the usual standouts (Tulla, Roxy, JBin, etal.) but......what I´m getting outta all this is this:
LaSalle´s gonna throw in the towel and concede the title to St. Joes for the next 10 years?? Jaysus, hope not...it´s bad enough the PCL´s turned into a three-team show.....
LaSalle´s gonna throw in the towel and concede the title to St. Joes for the next 10 years?? Jaysus, hope not...it´s bad enough the PCL´s turned into a three-team show.....
Forget the comparison between the schools. You are creeping into real life and like Murph said this is a football forum. But I don't get it on the football comparison between Prep and Lasalle. Lasalle has had a few kids our of the ordinary from who they usually get and if they are now going to go to Prep solely to win a state championship then what can you do? Prep can't guarantee that. I mean how many D1 players did Lasalle have till recently. Arguably the most intense HS player we have seen and he killed Prep was Coleman...he was a lacrosse player! If anything LS lacrosse needs to send some more athletes over to football. That has been their skilled players. A kid like Herron is from a typical LS feeder school...Prep just rarely gets kids up there. They got lucky with Shurmer. Prep got lucky with Morninwheg. The state champ kids were mostly CYO kids from Montgomery County and philly into Mt. Airy. Throw in a few Northeast Philly kids. That has and will always be LS feeder area. So check yourselves. The loss will be DG who did a ton with those kids. And now there is a huge reaction to Infante bringing the North Jersey way down here. Panic in the streets. I for one will be interested to see that play out.
